Wheels, Tires, Stance

Wheels, Tires, Stance.


The ever elusive combination that makes a car look right.
Some hit it on the nose right off and for others it takes a while . . . if ever.


Like the Resto-Rod era it seems there was an era we could call the Street Rod era.
I looks to have started somewhere in the early 80's and is still going on.
The cars were nicely done, most all of them built to a simple formula, but part of the problem for me was they were, to a great extent, pretty much all the same.
Didn’t hurt anything though, give the owner a little time to put his or her personal stamp on the car and it was, like many others, one of a kind.

You can make comments, snide or otherwise about belly button Deuce roadsters, but in truth they are much like belly buttons.
How many belly buttons do you see that look the same?
Pleasant research I must admit and made easier by the bikinis worn by more than a few beautiful young women.

Anyway, I’ve never been happy with some aspects of my 32 roadsters appearance.
Style-wise, from the direct rear view it’s too tall and narrow.
Emphasized a bit by the cloth top, but it even looks wide with the top off.
A styling faux paux by Edsel Ford and myself to an extent.

Granted, everyone loves 32s, I do and always have, but some areas can be improved by wheels, tires and stance along with some allusions to width and lowness made by accessories such as the gasser style bumper I added mainly for protection, but to also introduce a horizontal element into the overall look of the rear.

Model A roadsters look great when viewed from the rear.
I attribute that to an illusion of lowness as well as actual lowness.
Take note of the Model A roadster trunk line, it flows down, back toward horizontal a bit and then turns down to meet the bottom rear of the body.
Somewhat along the lines of the 27 T roadster, but not as radical.
32 trunk lines flow straight off the cockpit rear then turn down to the bottom rear of the body.
Along with that, the 32 cockpit is 2" deeper than the A’s and all of them, 29, 31 and 32 have virtually the same size cockpit except for the disparity in depth noted.

I hear every now and then about the Model A roadser cockpits being smaller than the 32 cockpit, but it’s an old wives tale.
I measured all three cars and have the figures if you’re interested.

In fact, my 31, even with the 4" firewall recess has more legroom than the 32, but much of that is due to the seats and how they are set up ergonomically.


32's look great from the front, no argument there, just that mine doesn’t look quite right to my eye and is one of the reasons I’ve tried several wheel/tire combos on it.
Another small fault is the horizontal home-made headlight bar.
Since the Deuces don’t really have straight lines style-wise the straight bar doesn’t quite make it.
I’ve been thinking off and on of copying the most cool headlight bar on AV8s Bluey which is probably the best Model A roadster ever built.
It’s one of those cars that hit everything just right.


I’m going to toss a bunch of pictures out and see what you think.
This is not so much a gathering of opinions, but I’ll be glad to listen and discuss and what I don’t want is to get off on a rant about one thing or the other.
What I’m doing may not be correct according to the trad views of some, but like more than a few hot rodders, I don’t care.
My car, my way.


Here’s a pic of what the car looked like a while back.
Very similar to what it looked like when first fired up in 93 - had the darned thing since 85 - except there was no top.


Along with that it had 185/70R-14 tires on 7" wide slot mags.
Looked ok for a while then I decided the wheels really were too wide for the car although the tire size looked ok.
I swapped the 7" wides for a pair of 6" wide 14" slots.
Put a pair of 195/70R-14s on the 6" wheels at the same time.
I wanted to get the front end up just a touch so the jack could go under the axle without doing the raised wooden pad fandango.
It still looked ok.

Then my pal gave me a pair of 5 ½" x 14" slots.
I had these polished at the chrome shop and they haven’t needed much upkeep since.
I stuck a pair of 185/70R-14 tires on these wheels and things were looking pretty good.

Sounds like a lot of tires so far, but it’s been over a 22 year period.
Granted, the car was first up and running in late 93, but the original tires were new BFGs and I used them for rollers for a few years then drove on em for a while.

A few months back, I decided to give whitewalls a try and bought a pair of 185/75R-14 for the front and later on the tallest tire I could find for the rear which was only 28" high.
It made for quite a change appearance-wise

One problem with shopping for tires around here and down at the river in Bullhead City, you can’t hardly find blackwalls anymore.

I did like the look of the narrower WW tire on the front and here’s a few pics to compare with.

First up, the 5 ½" wide slot mags with the 185/70R-14s.


The rake on the car is steeper than it looks, it’s on a subtly sloping downhill part of the driveway at my California house.

For comparison, the 185/75R-14 WW tires on a side view here in Sunny Arizona.


Not too bad, but a little street roddy for my taste so I put the 10" wide wheels and big tires back on.
Figured I’d wear the WW tires out, but it doesn’t look right with the WW on the outside, so later on I’m going to flip them and put the WW on the inside.
I know, it’s a highboy and the WW will still be visible, but it’s kinda dumb to toss a perfectly good tire.


So yesterday, I pulled the rear wheels off the 31 on 32 rails project roadster so I could yank the 4.57 Detroit Locker diff out of it.
I’ve been using the locker as a ‘roller’, but it’s coming out since it’s sold and part of the trade was for a 3.00 for the 32.
I do a lot of highway driving here in Arizona and the long lonesome highways tend to go by quicker when you’re running at a higher, but reasonable speed.
The local freeway speed limit is 75 per and most folks cruise at 80-85.
The 32 spins up 3300 rpm at 80 which is a bit much and the higher gears will probably improve gas mileage a bit.
I’m aiming toward 20 mpg on the highways, right now I’m getting 16-17 mpg on the highways, but I could probably do a little better if I’d quit nailing it on the on-ramps.
Another discussion for another time I suppose.

Anyhoo, got to looking at the front tires on the 31, yanked em off, took em down, got em balanced - they were purchased new to use as rollers - and stuck em on the front of the 32.

Big improvement style-wise I think.
Due to the 15" wheels mostly, but the taller tire (25" vs 24") helps the look a whole lot.
I’m really liking it and that’s one of the reasons I posted earlier on late Ford 15" wheels.

I have to admit to being smitten with my slot mags.
Especially so since I adapted 32 hubcaps to them.
Makes for a very different look.
Here’s a closeup of the rear wheel after the adaptation.


I have a pair of 4 ½" wide slot mags - more on that later, probably way later - and I can get the same look as the steelies, but still run the slot mags.

There’s quite a bit of chrome on the car, but I like to use chrome as an accent and paint & powder in other places.
It does seem the 32 needs a bright and shiny wheel and mags are pretty trad as long as they’re not too big and don’t end up looking like a chrome plated covered wagon wheel.

Here’s a pic of the 32 with the steelies up front.


Here’s a view of how the car looks with steelies both ends.
This photo is a little off-putting and weird looking cuz the rear steelies are not mounted and simply sitting next to the mag wheel/big tire combo.
It’ll give you an idea though.


Here’s a couple of front views you can compare to the first pic above.
Looks pretty good to me and the interesting part is the 15" wheel allows a lot of clearance for the 68-70 Mustang disc brakes as compared to the tight fit with the 14" mags.





Just for the heck of it, here’s three, 3/4 rear view angles from all three tire setups.







The pair of 15" x 4 ½" wide slot mags alluded to above need to be adapted to the late Ford 4 ½" x 5 pattern.
No wheel adapters will be used cuz I don’t like em.
They’ll simply be drilled for the new pattern.

The big tire/wheel combo will stay on the back, I like the looks of them and they help add to the horizontal styling component at the rear, which, as noted above, the Deuce roadsters sorely need.
The big soft tires bite pretty good at the dragstrip.
Better in my opinion than the old hard slicks from yesteryear.

A pair of 10" wide steelies with these same rear tires would look good I think.


One additional thing that will help is to "C" the frame and get the back end down 2".
It should help a lot in the ride dept., even with the short travel coilovers, but more importantly is lowering the car in the rear and bring what is a somewhat extreme dago down to reasonable.
If I do that, I'll probably pull the coilovers and go with a transverse rear spring which is way more tunable and has quite a bit of extra travel.
The car has a flat rear crossmember so the swap would be easy.

I gotta admit, I really like the steelies and caps on the 32, but they’ll go back on the 31 after a while and if I can ever get around to setting up the narrow slot mags I think they’ll look just as good.

For a long while I thought the 32 should have a smaller diameter wheel up front to semi-sorta match the bigger wheel in back and make things look right vis a vis tire size.
Now I’m realizing it’s not so much the wheel size and more of a tire selection thing.
A small tire on the same diamter front wheel as the rear with its usually larger tire balances things out about right.

So, a little experience, a few changes, and a bit of a change in personal opinions can lead to some interesting stuff in the world of roadsters and hot rods.

Kinda all about this methinks.


And this.


As well as a little of this.



So far, so good....

 

Steelies look good ,wrong color though. 60s white with baby moons? Cream white ? sliver grey? Color match to your interior color?

 

So if I read all that right you SOLD? The A roadster?

 

Nein, nein . . . sold the Detroit locker for some $$ and a 3.00 open diff in trade.

The A remains as a long term project.
Didn't mean for it to turn out that way, but that's the way it goes.

I have an Auburn locker with 3.25 gears sitting on the workbench that goes into the 31.

Here lately, I''ve been doing some rifle restorations and put in a veggie garden etc. etc.


After . . . before was something else.


Another one, a Winchester 74 that dad bought new in 1952.


Dad left it with granddad and my dumb-ass Arkansas cousins beat the shit out of it by the time I got it back.
Nothing against Arkansas, a fine state full of fine people, but my cousins are something else.
Dad always called all the in-laws the outlaws so that explains it pretty well.

I do have an interesting oiling project going on with the 31s engine and it'll get put in the 32 (both engines are 455Buicks) to help get the high rpm oil floating around in the crankcase and valley under control.
I'll post something on that later.

I'd sell the 32 before I sold the 31.

It's nice to have a roadster to drive now.
If I didn't I'd probably be spending all my time in the garage.

The summer heat is on, 102 today so I get driven out of the garage about noon or one.

Then I come in here and pester you guys....

 

Fiddy will be interested in that oiling cure! He lost a main on his a week ago

Guns, yeah, I started shooting flintlock again after many years. Another couple message boards and a hobby that I can do on a workbench instead of the whole damn shop!

 

Loose the white walls. if you want to turn 'em around, Krylon Semi-Flat black will cover the white and is undetectable on rubber. Look at most any hot rod from Ohio. Those guys got stance down pat. You are right on with the large rears, but to get the Ohio rake go for 165 15's on the front. Don't worry about getting the jack under the axle. I'm running 145's with a 4" drop, had the jack problem until I got one of the cool NASCAR type aluminum roller jacks from Harbor Freight for under a 100 bucks. Rolls right under the axle with an inch to spare.

 

Send it to those "Rolling Bones" guys, their stuff is the coolest! Just sayin....

 

I'm all about Kelseys and Steelies, but I think your deuce looks best with the slot mags -- even if they're not much in favor any more among the traditionalists. I think the Ford caps on the mags really work on your car.

 

I am a big proponent of 165R15 tires on 3.5-5 inch wheels for the front of hot rods. I think the car is bitch'n, and that tire size is a good choice. Also, in the unsolicited opinion category, add one more vote for the slot mags, especially with your high-speed Deuce hubcap adapter.

 

My vote: Keep the slotted mags.

 

The oiling cure I'm involved with is more of a valley problem with oil droplets floating around in the valley and not so much a bearing pressure problem.

Dunno if you ever noticed, but the 455 Buick valley is pretty wide open at the bottom and you can see a lot of the cam.
Jeez Louise, how much drain back capacity do you need?

Buicks do have a bathtub gasket, but it doesn't do the job.
And in fact, home-made gaskets are better than the tin pan wonders made for Buick intakes.

I wrote up an article on an air/oil separator I made that really helped keep things under control without the bathtub, but the bathtub really should be in there.

The separator I made works great for a full throttle run at the dragstrip, but run 3300 rpm for few miles, mash the throttle and it's oil cloud city.
Comes from - I'm pretty sure - oil droplets gathering and recirculating in the air in the valley and a full throttle romp sucks all the oil and air through the PCV valve.

This is the bit I'm trying to cure.

Far as Fiddy losing a main, was it one of the rear ones?
I ask cuz the Buicks run a lower pressure at the rear of the block and #8 rod bearing is what usually lets go there.
Elevated rpms are what will do it.
You really don't have to rev the big Buicks over 5500 rpm with most any cam - and if you do, better have a few oiling mods done.

One I'm looking at with the upcoming engine is similar to what the Cleveland guys do for their race engine.
They pick up oil pressure at the front of the engine and use a braided line to put pressure into the right rear oil gallery.
Gives #8 a chance to live through it all.

If Fiddy has a remote oil filter, he may want to double check to see if the in and out lines are properly connected.
Get em backwards and you'll run 10-12# low pressure overall.

Don't ask how I know that....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the recommendation on Krylon flat black.
I'll give it a shot - so to speak.

I've had one of the HF aluminum "Racing Jacks" for a while.
Nice little jack.
No probs.

As noted, gotta get the narrow slot mags squared away.
I did get them out today and did a little measuring etc.

Looks like they will clean up very nicely.

The rear 7" x 15" slots in the above pic with WWs polished up fairly well with my buffer.
They were a little sad to start with.

 

Very interesting thread C9. Iwould be tempted to run the steelies, reversed, chromed and wearing the skinny whites. Nice clean looking car any which way.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

Your comment on the high-speed Deuce hubcap adapter struck me a bit funny.
Not you, me.
That cuz the adapter slows down wheel removal by quite a bit and you need an allen wrench to pull five allen bolts after the caps are off so you can access the lugnuts.

Took a while to make them and lots of experimenting went on.
I think, in the end I made six of them.
The big trick is the outer edges where the hubcap sits are angled to match the hubcap.
That required so the cap could sink far enough into the adapter so the spring loaded locking lugs could grab the groove cut on the inside and keep a constant inward pull - that way, no rattles.

Along with the allen wrench - and a T-handle is the way to go - you need a right angled flat screwdriver to pop the caps off.

You can probably figure out the rest from the photos.

 

Forgot to list the size tire on the blue steelies, so here's all the info on the 31's wheels and tires.


Front:
165R/80-15
4 ½" tread width
25" tall
5" x 15" wheel


Rear:
P235/75R-15
6" tread width
28" tall
6" x 15" wheel

Right now, I'm liking the 165's, but if they get to looking too big I'd probably spring for a set of 145s.
Good recommendation and thanks.

The thinking today is, take the rear steelies down, get em balanced, pop em on, pull the top and hit What A Burger Saturday night with a different looking car.

As you can see, a wheel swap or similar can make a big change in a cars appearance.

From sissy cah to mean with only 20 nuts....

 

Sounds like you scrutinize your own car a LOT. And, by putting steelies on for tests, it makes me think you wish it was a late 40s early 50s build style. You also made the remark about "too street rodder", so I really think you need to pick a style and stick with it. Too much mixing of different styles does not work.

The slickest cars out there are the insanely simple ones; no do-dads, no gimmicks, and no one part steals your casual glance.

 

i vote for the slots with the ww's turned in as well.. just seems to work with your ride C9..

 

I dont remember seeing that but those are the numbers I settled on in my head many moons ago.

 

I'll go along with you on this one, but will suggest if no one part catches your eye you're not looking close enough....

 

Interesting stuff and probably why the 24" tall tires have bugged me for so long.

I'm fairly close with the 30" rear tires on mags and 25" front tires on steelies.


Your working out proportions looks to me like you understand The Sacred Cut quite well.

The ratio you found may be good fodder for the Jalopy Journal.
Call it the Golden Mean for Hot Rods....

 

Doane Spencer built the perfect deuce. The stance is spot on. I understand that people evolve their cars for comfort and safety as new parts are available, but it doesn't hurt to keep a picture of his car in the shop at all times. I vote for dirt track tires and ribbed firestones on 16" steelies. Street is neat!

 

The Gloden Mean has always been used in automobile design. That is one reason chopped concept cars always look betterr than production.

 

You are right when you say your top does not look right...

This car showed up on hamb a year ago? I can't find the thread or the owners name. North shore in Mass. I love the way this car sits...plus everything else

 

Could you explain this more? Not sure what you mean by "chopped concept cars".

 

Please don't take this the wrong way as it's not meant to be a put down.You're asking for opinions so I'm going to give you mine. I wish I could post current pictures of my roadster but my old computer died and I don't know how to downsize my pictures.
I think your car's wheels are too small, too wide and the offset makes them sit out too far. You need to install taller, narrower wheels/tires and offset the rears inward towards the wheelhousing.
Get rid of the headlamp bar, use a larger headlamp.
Your top is too square. You might modify it to resemble a "bop top". A rear gas tank would fill in the rear end and make the body more symetric.

Can I e-mail my '32 pictures to a HAMBER and have you post them for me?

My car's stance closely resembles 3wLarry's coupe. Hopefully someone will post large pics for me, but I run 16" fronts and 18" rears....Mike
[email protected]

 

I like the taller tires up front. They please my eye proportionally, but also say "this car is ready to be used hard". That's a good thing

 

The following pics are HemiFarris 1932 roadster..impressive car!

 

"Omega",
Hey Ryan, thanks a lot for posting my pictures for me.....Mike

 

Your car is the shit, Mike. Any more details?

 

Easy, factory concept cars always have a lower greenhouse area. When the car ets to production it has a much higher roofline. Designers tend to follow the mean because we as humans RELATE to it. Production issues tend to bastardize these pure designs.