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What's the best frame/chassis paint? - Powder coat? POR-15?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Abomination, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    As I'm sure most of you have seen, I've posted a few things asking how to get my 4700 lb '60 Cadillac body off of the frame, and some suspension advise.

    I need your invaluable help again, this time with frame & chassis paint.

    Should I blast the frame & chassis parts and powder coat 'em? Should I blast 'em and use POR-15 anyway (even though it's blasted), or should I just straight-up use POR-15 and forget the blast (assuming there's no rot)? What about that Eastwood stuff?

    Surely somebody out there has some awesome stuff in mind that was probably never intended for chassis/frame paint, but is sold in 5-gallon buckets for really cheap and is actually the best damned chassis/frame paint a guy could ever use. :)

    Just curious about chassis prep here. What kinds of frame/chassis paint are you guys using (stuff you swear by), and why?

    Also, while we're on the subject (and I'm so not there yet on my project, but my wife and I were pretty curious), what's a great paint or coating for the bottom of the Cadillac's body? I think there's got to be some kind of paint with a little "bounce" to it, but am not sure where to look for it. My wife brought up rubberized undercoating, but I've spent time heating and scraping that stuff, and have seen the heinous damage it can do when there's a break in it and it rusts everything out. I was kidding when I mentioned "Rhino Lining" over bare metal... but would something like that actually work?

    I've never done anything frame-off before (or had anything that I wanted to do it in, or really needed it), which is the reason for my questions. Any advice is much, much appreciated and is taken to heart.

    Thanks Ryan, and thanks HAMB - without you guys setting me straight, I'd be in a world of hurt (and believe me, when I screw things up, I screw 'em up royally)!

    ~Jason
     
  2. dragrcr50
    Joined: Jul 25, 2005
    Posts: 3,865

    dragrcr50
    Member

    if you have it blasted then you can shoot it with a sealer for bare metal and paint with a good paint. or just wire brush it all real good and wash it then por 15 it and top coat it with what ever color you want it will be good forever.. as for the floor if it shere you can get to it good, clean it and seal it with an etcheing sealer and shoot it with bed liner. we use it all the time on driver cars... has worked for years for us ... dont use the old undercoating with the sticky crap ...
     
  3. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Bed liner really works that well? What if I ever have to get it off for some reason - is it hard?

    How apt is it to crack and start rusting? Does the same warranty apply if it's used as an underbody coating as if it were used in the traditional sense (as a bed liner)?

    I've thought that the bed liner stuff on the deck of my riding mower as a trial (rocks, etc really beat it to shit during the summer) to see how it does. I've only been a casual observer - I've never had an application I seriously considered it for until now, and don't know a whole lot about it, especially cost-wise.

    Maybe I can get a huge discount if I drive my car in parades with a magnetic "Rhino Lining" sign on the side. :)

    ~Jason

     
  4. barraza
    Joined: Nov 6, 2006
    Posts: 10

    barraza
    Member

    Something you may want to consider is galvanizing, industrial places charge by the pound so it is very cheap. May not be the look you want for a frame that can be seen, but it can be painted over.

    Here's a link I ran across about it, apparently it can be done for as little as a couple hundred bucks for a full size frame
    http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101788&page=2&highlight=GALVANIZED

    And yeah, I'll go do an intro now
     
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  5. yblock292
    Joined: Oct 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,938

    yblock292
    Member


    Powder coat....... Just had a new TCI Model a chassis and all the stuff, 37 detail parts done here in Wichita, $850.00. Including sandblasting , powder coating, wrapping each individual part in bubble wrap and loading it all in my truck!
     
  6. 50shoe
    Joined: Sep 14, 2005
    Posts: 636

    50shoe
    Member

    if its apart yeah. powder rocks. but if its not coming 100% apart, clean/blast and POR15 it or hit it with some nice epoxy primer and top coat with urethane. I por15ed the underside of my daily driver 5 years ago and it still looks pretty nice.
     
  7. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 6,945

    Petejoe
    Member

    I would never powder coat any undercarriage. i think its just overkill for the expense involved. Most of the cars we work on are going to be around well after we are gone.
    A few things about Por15. I have seen it come off in sheets.
    Reason being is the prep work was not correct. the stuff is designed for rust and rough surface applications. If you put it on a newly painted or smooth surface it will fail. I like the stuff. It hides very well and smooths out beautifully when done right. Dont spray it without an enclosed breathing system. it will kill you. I brushed mine. Any of this stuff on skin will not come off with any solvent. It will have to be worn off.
    I wont use it again for these reasons. Right now I am doing the underside of my 34. Simply wire brushing, etch priming and a good durable chassis or implement paint like John Deere will last longer than you and I. Why go any farther???
    Now if we are doing a vehicle strictly for show and most here are not. It would be a total different story. Just my 2 cents. PJ
     
  8. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Dude - $200 or so for 600 lbs? That's awesome!!!

    There's even a few places on the way to visit some family, which we could hang out with for a few days while it was done.

    This is freakin' badass (and at the top of my list of considerations for what to do with this frame), thanks!

    If anyone else is interested in galvanizing, here's a link:
    http://www.galvanizeit.org/

    There's a "Galvanizer Locater" link there so you can find 'em in your area.

    ~Jason

     
  9. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    That's a pretty good deal. Where'd you take it to? How does their pricing work (so I can estimate how much it'll be for me)?

    So far, galvanizing, followed by implement paint seems to be the route I'm going, but I'm totally open to powdercoating if the price is right (just to keep my options open).

    I'll have to keep track of prices - I was saying to someone on here today in a PM that this may well end up a coffee table book someday (as I plan on taking lots of pictures). :)

    ~Jason


     
  10. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Man, if I go through THAT much BS and take a 4700 lb car apart down to the frame, it's goin' ALL the way apart. :)

    ~Jason

     
  11. Wesley
    Joined: Aug 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,671

    Wesley
    Member

    I powder coated the frame on my car 15 years ago. It has held up well and for the most part still looks good. Now for the down side. powder coating does not always get into every nook and cranny. It takes a while but rust stains will start to show up every place that the powder didnt find. Repairing powder coating after damage or modifications is difficult at best. If you need to do any welding on metal that has been powder coated it will take alot of sanding to get to clean metal to weld. At least that has been my experience.
     
  12. WildWilly68
    Joined: Feb 1, 2002
    Posts: 1,690

    WildWilly68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    POR15 or the Eastwood product (Rust Encapsulator?) are great for both the frame and the underside of the car. Follow the proper prep steps and they will last a long time. I've used POR15 on 2 cars and will be using it on a third shortly. It goes on real easy, but as someone said...don't get it on you or you will have to wear it off if you let it dry.

    Bill
     
  13. johnnykck
    Joined: Dec 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,025

    johnnykck
    Member

    POR 15, but read and follow instructions, if you use it the way it's supposed to be used it's great! I use it all the time and have never been disapointed!
     
  14. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Damn, I like your idea of the etch priming and the implement paint. I've been around different tractors and implements all my life, and I know that's some tough shit they're painted with.

    I thought if it was cheap enough, I may as well galvanize it first, before the etching primer and implement paint. Do you know if the primer will hold well to the newly galvanized metal?

    ~Jason

     
  15. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    That's probably why I'll galvanize before I put whatever coating on the frame I'm going with.

    ~Jason

     
  16. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    How hard is it to get it off of metal again?

    ~Jason

     
  17. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    I hear if you don't, it'll kill ya. :)

    ~Jason

     
  18. caffeine
    Joined: Mar 11, 2004
    Posts: 2,440

    caffeine
    Member
    from Central NJ

    eastwood has a "extreme chassis black" paint that is REALLY good. hard as a rock, id put it up agains powdercoating and I sprayed mine on with a rattle can.

    they make a primer for it too. lays on smooth even from a rattlecan.
     
  19. WildWilly68
    Joined: Feb 1, 2002
    Posts: 1,690

    WildWilly68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Once it is on there you about have to grind it off. I've heard brake fluid will take it off but once you get it wet again then you have a whole nother mess!
     
  20. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    The rattle can is appealing, but sounds expensive. I wonder how it would compare vs implement paint?

    ~Jason

     
  21. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Ewwww....

    I have twins, and have changed twice the amount of diapers as any normal first-time parent - thus, I've dealt with a good many messes in my day.

    Still compared to that, liquified POR-15 sounds even more revolting.

    ~Jason


     
  22. jthuma94
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 36

    jthuma94
    Member

    I was under the impression that paint does not bond to galvanizing well due to the zinc content. Never tried it because of this...
     
  23. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 6,945

    Petejoe
    Member

    We used to use a galvaneal in the truck building industry. It was a type of galvanized metal that actually was throughout the material.
    If that wasnt a bitch to weld..
    The material was painted. But it was also primed. I'm sure it takes a special primer for this. Seems like an oxymoron though.
    Galvanizing material to prevent rust and throwing paint on it too.
    I'm sure it would help in the protection though.
     
  24. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Sounds like something I'll have to look into - special primers for galvanized steel. I had wondered about that.

    Thanks for the heads-up, guys!

    ~Jason
     
  25. barraza
    Joined: Nov 6, 2006
    Posts: 10

    barraza
    Member

    In the links I posted above, there was discussion about painting. I think the consensus was zinc compatible paint is required along with good cleaning just prior to paint. There was also concern about warping , but none of the people that had it done reported any, temps required are in the 850F range. I think it would look ok unpainted, it will end up a dull guardrail/powerline pole gray. Not exactly what you want to see on a highboy, but fine for a caddy
     
  26. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    You're right - nobody's gonna see it. It's a daily driver after all.

    ~Jason


     
  27. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 1,078

    flatford39
    Member

    Interesting thread here and alot of great suggestions. The bottom line on anything related to painting is preparation, preparation and even more preparation. The object needs to be totally rust free prior to applying any type of media or it will eventually find its way out in a real nice rust stain. Some on this board think rust is cool (and I am starting to like it myself) but you sound like your looking for more of a finished project. When I tear a frame down I remove every hanger on it and paint them separetly before mounting. I use a good quality chassis enamel over a premium red oxide primer and they seem to hold up well.
     
  28. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 1,078

    flatford39
    Member

    Galvanneal was a pre-etched galvanized material that was degreased so that it could accept normal latex and enamel paints. I'm in the HVAC business and don't see it be used much anymore. I've given galvanized parts a real good vinegar bath before painting with pretty good success. I have an article in my office about galvanneal that is fairly recent. I'll look for it and try to post more on it tomorrow.
     
  29. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Actually, I am more of a finished project kind of guy. I'm more of the 'riding around in primer' type than the 'rust is the new black' type folks. I want the mechanical (which is where the true beauty lies) to be tip-top, and the body can be presentable later, as I go... but I want my chassis to be tits before I turn it into a daily driver. And if I'm going to go to the trouble of all that, I may as well take the body off of it and give it the attention it deserves, especially if I'm going to count on it day in and day out for the next several years. Chances are I'm not going to want to take the body off again for a long, long, long time (if ever), so it had better be done freakin' perfect (or at least until I'm happy with it).

    I just want it to be to the point where I know that it's done up right so I won't have to worry about it. And I'm way more safety conscious now that I have kids, too. Most of the fun in this car will be hauling the my girls in it, and if something ever happened to them I'd be devastated... especially if it was something I could've prevented.

    I plan on spending quite a bit of quality prep time with it to make it rust free. From what folks have been posting about their rust stains, I'm afraid it's made me pretty paranoid about 'em. Granted, I agree with Petejoe that the frame will be around long after I'm gone, but if I'm going to all this trouble, I may as well do what I can to get it to outlast my grandchildren while I'm at it.

    ~Jason

     
  30. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,599

    Abomination
    Member

    Post what you can, man. It'll be extremely appreciated.

    ~Jason

     

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