Projects Tommy R Attempts to Build a Hot Rod Model A

Even moreso with 300-400 hp and skinny bias plies, I bet!

 

Have you checked out this site?
Chuck

http://www.classicroad.com/modelA/index.htm

 

Hi Chuck,

Yes! I've been using Rolf's site as my bible and one of my biggest inspirations. Thanks, though!

In fact, looking at Rolf's front crossmember placement (also on reproduction rails) looks fairly similar to where mine is currently mocked up. Hopefully he won't mind me linking a photo of his!


And mine:

 

Interesting build, more pictures , enjoying the discussion,,, thanks for sharing ,,,

 

Great start!! Keep it up and good luck! You have an excellent body to start with and you are going about it in an awesome manner! Keep us posted!

 

Thanks, I appreciate it. I think by the time I'm done with this, it'll essentially be a "Dummie's Guide to Building a Vintage Style Hot Rod". And I'm cool with that.

 

Great thread...waiting for more!

 

Thanks, Joey. I hope to have some more updates real soon. Got a lead on a rear axle so I may be closing a deal on that this week. Unfortunately, that may postpone the purchase of my dropped front axle. If only I were made of money!

Meanwhile, I'll try to take care of some items that just cost time, not money. Like how will I fab up a temporary jig to make sure the frame is square and true when I finally weld it up? And I still need to figure out the plan to determine my crossmember locations....and what rear crossmember I want to use? I definitely plan on a transverse spring in the rear....possibly using the spring pack that came from my '40 front end.

 

I just got a '40 front spring that I plan to use for the rear of my car. I'm not sure if these chassis guys re-arch, de-arch, buy new main leafs or whatever... I'm thinking about a rear crossmember from Vaphead... or maybe one from So-Cal...

I was searching the archives and found this thread...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253768

Andy say's use a '40 front spring, but nobody elaborates on how to install it. Bass has a '36 front spring on the rear of his coupe and it looks good!!!

I just found this thread today... It tells it all...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=492721

Bass says he now runs a NOS '40 front spring on the rear with extra leaves...

 

Car is looking good! I guess you got away from mustangs like every one else.?

 

So yesterday I got a call back from a tech. guy with Speedway. He told me the rails are designed to be identical to the stock '32 rails. They're also made by ASC. Go figure. He did say that they have a pinched version, but it's only available as a fully assembled chassis, not in kit form. Why is my frame narrower than most is beyond me. Maybe they got tweaked? Doubt it, but who knows. Probably just manufacturing tolerances.

Whatever the case, I'm going to do a little pinch on it to get the rails under the cowl better, but I'll deal with that a little later on. No need to rush into that just yet when I'm still in the parts accumulation phase for the chassis. Should have a small update tomorrow, though...

 

Dang, I missed that last part of your post the first time I read it. Thanks for the info! Definitely helpful stuff there.

Thanks! I guess I got out of Mustangs about 7-8 years ago when I sold my third Mustang. Started with a new '96 Cobra, then built a racecar from an '87 hatch, and the last one was a daily driver '92 coupe (the best looking one of the three). I enjoyed them, but they pale in comparison to how I feel about my old Ford.

 

Picked up a rear axle yesterday. It's a 9" from a '71 early Bronco so it's got a 58" WMS to WMS width. The good news is it's only got 58k miles, came from a running truck, and it's got 4.11 gears which will match up nicely with my T5 trans (not purchased yet) and 7.50-16 tires. The bads news it's in dire need of a good cleaning and maybe some rebuilding....and it's an open diff. However, a friend of mine in Chicago just replaced his center section in his Bronco so he's selling me his with a Trac-Lok. I'll rebuild it and will have a 4.11 geared, limited slipped, 9" to move this thing down the road....just like I wanted.

Too bad I pulled a muscle yesterday and haven't had change to get any work done this weekend.

 

Last night I did a little more research on my 9" axle. First off, I wanted to verify the 4.11 ratio. The pass. side brake drum was dragging inconsistently making it impossible to rotate the pinion and count axle rotations. Since it's an open diff I just locked that axle down with a pry bar (see pic below) and spun the other axle shaft and counted the pinion rotations. Just over 2 rotations which confirms the 4.11 gears it's supposed to have. Good! Now I just need to get that brake drum off. It's rusted on there pretty badly. Any ideas? It's already soaking in PB and has received several smacks from a MFH. I'm hoping not to use the BFH unless absolutely necessary.

Best I can tell using info. from this site, it must be a '66 model axle since it has a contoured back end, but also a rear fill plug. This may be the only year for such an axle? It also appears to be the common C7AW-E case, which is a good thing since it is reportedly stronger than earlier cases. I think the stamping is inside the case so I can't confirm this 'til I remove the center section.

Here's some pics...

 

See that little metal tag on the bolt where the center section bolts to the housing.....That tells all the info about rear diff and housing, such as year, gear ratio, posi or open drive, etc. etc. etc. Go to Google and search "ford 9 inch specs" or something like that... Here's the link I used. the info you want is way down the page. Hope this helps...

http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm

 

Thanks, man... That site has been great in helping me ID my axle. Came across it about a week or so ago when I was Googling 9" stuff. The ID tag does (barely) list "4 11" as the ratio, but that's no guarantee someone hasn't changed them out at some point so I definitely wanted to verify. The tag is pretty crusty anyway and is pretty hard to read.

So I was able to verify it's a '66 model based on the fact that it has a rear fill plug and contoured rear "hump" on the housing. It's also got the tell tale signs of being a big bearing axle (11" drums, stepped up tube diameter at the flange). I haven't pulled the case out yet, but the freewheeling motion and the ID tag both point to an open diff, as the seller stated. The Trac-Lok should be here next week sometime. I did get the brake drums off yesterday so once I wire wheel the entire housing I'll start on the disassembly and rebuilding.

Unfortunately, my g/f and I are flying to Ohio for a wedding this weekend so I may not work on it 'til next week. Bummer.... On the bright side, we're heading to Cedar Point to ride some killer roller coasters after the wedding!

 

Tommy, chances are by looking at it, that has never been opened up, unless, it was a long time ogo which is posible I guess given it's age, most people forget to put the tag back on it.

 

I'm with ya, Gary.... I know I rarely re-install metal tags 'cause I'm usually doing a gear swap thus making the tag info. out of date. Judging by the VERY BLACK fluid that spewed forth from the pinion seal (when it was pointed downward overnight), I'm suspecting this is the original fluid that was sold with the truck in '66. It's kinda cool....in a poor maintenance sorta way.

A friend was able to decode another part of the axle and the case was cast in Oct. 1965. So this was an early '66. Yeah, this fluid was probably due for a change!!

 

Got my used 3.50 Trac-Lok in the mail yesterday. I'll order up some new clutches and begin the whole 9" rebuild soon, but the next chunk of money will finally go toward my drop axle. That's the next highest priority item to purchase.

I also snapped a couple pics of my body on the frame rails. Keep in mind that the body is merely placed approximately where I suspect it will end up. The cowl is ~46" from the leading edge of the frame. You can see how it doesn't look like it'll need much of a pinch to get the sides of the cowl to drop outside the frame. Maybe I should consider a pie cut of the cowl instead of a pinch? I'm open to suggestions here... I do plan on a "mini-channel" to get the cowl to sit flush with the frame rails.


Passenger side:


Driver side:


And a profile shot mocked up approximately where I think it should go, but I need to verify this.

 

tommy on your frame it is going to be way off and will take alot of work to get it where it needs to be. where you will be fitting it to a model a the wescott plans are kinda pointless for you. get the front and rear set to stock dimensions and then trace the bottom of your coupe to make a stencil. use the stencil to reshape your rails. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94649

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Keep in mind the body is merely placed on the rails right now. It's easily several inches "off" in its placement. I just mocked it up approximately where I thought it goes, but I'm sure it's off the mark. However, if you see something wrong with my frame rails, please let me know! I thought about following Moose's ides, but I'm not sure the effort is worth it to me. I think I would be content with just a slight pinch. Of course, exactly where and how much to pinch is what I need to determine.

What I'm thinking about doing is use the stock rear axle location, but move the front crossmember forward maybe an inch or so to get more engine bay room. Wheelbase would be at 107" if I do that. Once the wheelbase is set and crossmembers are in place, I would pinch the rails.

On another topic...

I need to build some dollies for the chassis and for the body. The chassis and body have to fit in one garage bay and be movable separately. I thought of making a really low, narrow dolly for the chassis and a tall, wide one for the body. The plan would be that the body could be rolled out of the garage so I could work on the chassis and vice versa. This is easy, but my bigger goal is to maybe rig up a way that the dolly can also function as a temporary frame jig. Maybe I'm trying to do too much and I should just make a basic dolly....

 

You do not have to re-shape your rails...thats a ton of extra work, and personally I think it looks kinda goofy. They didn't do it that way back in the day, and there's no need to do it now. I know of tons of A's on 32 rails that aren't re-shaped that look great, including mine. You also don't have to pinch if you don't want to. I spread my cowl a bit with the firewall out, then spread the firewall to fit. Your main concern should be making new rear subrails to follow the frame, and a slight channel in the front to get rid of the body/frame gap. As far as body placement is concerned, once it is a roller the rear tire and the wheel well will tell you where it goes. When the tire is perfectly centered in the well, that's where it goes. Period. Hope this helps.

 

Hey Mark, thanks for chiming in. I agree that the reshaped rails are simply too much work. I'm still on the fence about pinching the rails, but I'm leaning toward not. My concern is that I may not get them symmetric. I like the idea of spreading the cowl sides, but how did you widen the firewall? Did you pie cut it and then fill the gaps? Your car is a huge influence for me so in my opinion whatever you did worked!

Thanks again for the info. and for talking with me about your car on Saturday. I really appreciate it!

 

Came home from work yesterday and had a nice package waiting on the front porch from Oklahoma.


It's an orig. Model A axle that Joe Castro of Joe's Speed Shop worked over for me. It's a 4" drop and I sent him my spindles so he could bend the arms and also align the whole front end. He also installed new kingpins/bushings and I picked up one of his tie rods, too. Something tells me this may be the best money I've spent on the car yet...

 

You are correct, that is money well spent. Nothing like using refurbished vintage parts, going to be a nice ride.

 

I like the front end resolution you came up with. Got the same idea you do and will be calling Joes on Monday. Thanks for posting your build.

 

Thanks, y'all. I'm hoping to get the front end assembled this week.....well, the outers, at least. I still need to order up a front spring and some miscellaneous hardware to put it all together. I also need to start cleaning up and rebuilding that 9". I hope to get to that this week, too...

 

Last night I made it to the HAMB get together at a local pub. I was chatting with a few guys and checking out the cars when I hear, "Hey Tommy, your inspiration just showed up!" I looked over and saw Mark Ford roll into the parking lot with his bare metal Hemi powered A. I'm sure everyone knows his car, but here's a pic I took a week ago just for the hell of it.


I'd pestered Mark via PM about his car and got chance to meet him and see his car at a BBQ run last week. Real nice guy and the car is just bitchin'. So last night we're chatting with a couple other guys (Dreddybear, Moe) and somehow it comes up in conversation that not only had I never ridden in a Model A (shameful, huh?), but last week was the first time I'd even SAT in an A (courtesy of Mark, by the way). Mark seemed a bit surprised and said, "We need to take you for a ride in a hot rod. Let's go." What am I gonna do, say no??

Anyway, it was a short ride just a few blocks down the street and back, but it was awesome. Rowing through the gears with the Hemi cackling! We got out and Mark mentioned something about how we all need motivation from time to time. Yeah, I think I got a healthy dose of it last night. Thanks again, Mark! Now I really need to get this car done ASAP.....

 

Haha you're ruined. He did the same thing to me

 

Very cool gesture. The comradery found on the HAMB exemplifies what I like most about people.

I'd love to see that car in person. It's probably my favorite Model A... and the first vehicle I'll look for next year at the Round-up.