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The Work Of Zoltan Glass

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 15,096

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    from Austin, TX
    Staff Member

  2. justanotherguy
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 175

    justanotherguy
    Member

    There's a great book titled "Driving Forces" by Peter Stevenson, that addresses the pre WWII era of European racing and the Nazi "influence" on Mercedes and Auto Union. Once I started reading it I could hardly put it down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  3. Jive-Bomber
    Joined: Aug 21, 2001
    Posts: 2,572

    Jive-Bomber
    MODERATOR
    from Moraga, Ca

  4. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,364

    fur biscuit
    Member

    just what I need to do, get another book. per your comment about symbols: is there any difference between the swastika and the "hope" stuff tacked everywere? not really, only time will tell what history will decide the symbol comes to mean.

    Nuvolari looks so non-chalant. do you know where the picture was shot?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
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  5. justanotherguy
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 175

    justanotherguy
    Member

     
  6. DaveInc
    Joined: Feb 11, 2008
    Posts: 86

    DaveInc
    Member

    "2. The 1930’s was a hard period throughout the world - not just America. Still, these fellas found a way to make some beautiful machinery a reality. Is it just me or do these cars look and seem much more refined than the machines we were building in states during the same period? Thank god we were better at building performance aircraft just a decade later!"

    The German companies had the full support and backing of the government at that time to beat the world and prove German superiority. US companies had a different focus. Of course, like you said, when we worked together later....
     
  7. Unclee
    Joined: Nov 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,093

    Unclee
    Member

    The way I understand it, the nazi's (purposely not capitalized) were wanting the prestige that comes with racing victories and were just as ruthless about obtaining them as they were later when they started warring with everyone in Europe.
    A small percentage of the masses in Germany at the time had any actual contact with racing and/or these great machines, that were built by the brightest talent they could put together, thus the high level of finish.
    Awesome shots, thanx Ryan for posting them!
     
  8. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,382

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    I am not really familiar with car from the U.S. but I would not find it hard to believe that they were putting out far superior cars when compared to us during that time. I think I have the same car as my Desktop at work. The exhaust is certainly of similar characteristics.

    [​IMG]


    Seeing them salute always carries are errie feeling with it. It definitely took a driving force for Germany's industrial base to become that strong and calculated during a time where the rest of the countries were trying to keep the workforce moving at all.

    Love the pictures. He certainly did have a nice eye for this stuff. I am going to google his other stuff now for comparison.
     

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  9. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,364

    fur biscuit
    Member

     
  10. 40 & 61 Fords
    Joined: May 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,815

    40 & 61 Fords
    Member

    I saw the thread title and thought maybe Ryan got a new windshield...........:)
     
  11. 63fdsnr
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 365

    63fdsnr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. HAMB Old Farts' Club
    from Novi MI

    Unique photos of some beautiful race cars taken by a very talented man. I also think the paving in the courtyard is amazing. Thanks for the pictures and info.
    Al
     
  12. justanotherguy
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 175

    justanotherguy
    Member

    I think the "Euro" influence on streamlining is evident here:
    Germany 1930s and USA early '50s
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. BAKERSFIELD
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 166

    BAKERSFIELD
    Member

    Great post! I wish I had half of the inspiration / eye that this cat had!
     
  14. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,382

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Wish I could find a larger image but I think this one was cool too!
    [​IMG]

    The Man
    [​IMG]
     
  15. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 5,272

    manyolcars
    Member
    1. The Little Pages Tech Archive
    from .....

     
  16. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,382

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    Heard that same thing about the Salute. Not sure if there is any truth to it but I have heard it.
     
  17. Steve Hedke
    Joined: Sep 28, 2005
    Posts: 72

    Steve Hedke
    Member

    Auto Union and Mercedes racing teams had unlimited budgets to work with: they didn't even know how much money they spent. The depression had already killed Miller. It's understandable how the Germans progressed so rapidly before 1940.

    American hot rodders and racers were aware of the progress being made over there. Henry Ford certainly knew the superior efficiency of the Alfa 8C to his own V8 engine (more power, half the displacement), and Maseratis were seen at Indy before our entry in the war. European styling did influence Indy 'big cars', but road racing wasn't popular in the US until after the war. There was no reason to develop a road racing GP car in the US before the war.

    Certainly the Germans figured out how to use 'dope' fuel for even more power, similar to American racers adding nitro as drag racing developed.

    From that day to this, the Europeans led the way in automotive performance. Just look at how Dean Batchelor applied German technology to his stremliner, or how the Me262 changed the design of the F-86.

    This subject is quite relevant to hot rodding.
     
  18. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,433

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    Great Images great Story Thanks

    and could we just enjoy the German Engineering without getting politics involve ?

    as for the Swastika on the Camera ..I actually had one of those...Will have to go look for it

    in the mean time

    http://ldtomei2.googlepages.com/leicaiii(military)1937
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  19. James D
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,053

    James D
    Member

    Not only that - it was a good way to develop high performance engine technology under an innocent appearing pretext. I´d bet they learned a lot about aircraft engines from doing this. IIRC they were actually banned from developing high powered aircraft after WW1. There was a lot of activity around gliders though...
     
  20. Gigantor
    Joined: Jul 12, 2006
    Posts: 3,809

    Gigantor
    Member

    It's a shame that some of the most beautiful man-made creations are born during some of the ugliest times. Thanks for the history lesson, Boss.
     
  21. silverdome
    Joined: Aug 23, 2007
    Posts: 345

    silverdome
    Member

    That streamliner looks like it would be right at home on the salt flats.
     
  22. Keep in mind that at the time most professional US race car development was centered around the Indy 500. Once Indianapolis adopted the "junk" formula in 1931(?), even the builders and teams that still had money sort of let things stagnate until after the war. At the same time, as mentioned earlier, nazi Germany was out to prove it's technical superiority in every way possible.

    IMHO, the cars built by Miller were every bit as refined as the Mercedes and Auto Union grand prix cars, if perhaps not as innovative (esp when it came to streamlining).
     
  23. LUX BLUE
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,411

    LUX BLUE
    Alliance Vendor
    from AUSTIN,TX

    I agree that some of the most beautiful things ever built were from that period, but I think it is equally important to remember the amazing, often forgotten aspect of this post- not all germans were nazis.

    The nazis did an excellent job of running their propaganda machine w.f.o.-
    they had no issue with taking credit for something that a non-party member did. I am of the opinion that their forcible nature made it easier for them to simply "take and re-label" virtually anything of merit. and who in Germany was gonna argue?

    I want to thank Ryan for this post. while vaguely political in nature, I think it shows a little part of the natural defiance of the human spirit against "bad hoodoo." what is amazing about it is just how many people pull it off with panache and style, versus the supposed "in Your face" style of rebellion so many seem to cling to.

    The revolution may well not be televised, but that doesn't mean no one will get it on film.
     
  24. flamingokid
    Joined: Jan 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,475

    flamingokid
    Member

    Saluting a car,who'd a thunk it?
     
  25. Spoggie
    Joined: Jan 20, 2007
    Posts: 3,389

    Spoggie
    Member

    o.t.b.t.w- That symbol is a buddhist symbol. nazi's apprpriated it. Thanks for the link Ryan. Good stuff.
     
  26. Slim Pickens
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 3,334

    Slim Pickens
    Member

    Thanks Ryan. Great story...Class in session. Slim
     
  27. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,245

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    Amazing history and photos.
     
  28. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 29,873

    Tman
    Member

    Thats heavy and spot on Lux!
     
  29. LUX BLUE
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,411

    LUX BLUE
    Alliance Vendor
    from AUSTIN,TX

    I have a little bit of a sore spot myself on the subject. You see, during wwII, My grandfather was a glider pilot. I remember him clearly telling me that one of the worst things about the war was going to what was effectively my familys hometown, and pretty much finding a large pile of nothing.

    Like alot of german-americans, he had family there. family he knew.

    which means I had family there. family now gone. heritage wiped from the face of the earth.

    there was correspondance avalible to me -war letters-that I couldn't read, about the horrors of the situation, between distant cousins who had met only a few times in thier lives. My family came here towards the end of the revolutionary war- We are Hessians. (Yeah. those Hessians.) They were basically bought and sold as "sort of " mercenaries, and once they arrived, they were stripped of thier field artillery by the british, and pretty much left to fend for themselves, as enemies of pretty much everyone.

    If You know Hessian History, this scenario is "Par for the course".

    The world wars were a death knell for my family. and our home. it's simply gone now. we were pretty much wiped out. and for what?

    One really good public speaker with maniacal intent, added to a country grasping for sweeping change to drag them out of a depression. Paniced people can get talked into alot of bad things by an enigmatic speaker.

    research is the key here- be it cars, horses, or politics. do Your research before You buy anything. especially if it is supposed to dramatically improve milage, money, or happiness.
     
  30. Gigantor
    Joined: Jul 12, 2006
    Posts: 3,809

    Gigantor
    Member

    Lux Blue - didn't mean to step on any toes and I don't want you to think I'm as ignorant to think that all Germans are/were Nazis. I know how fear and a mob mentality can develop into a seemingly unstoppable tidal wave.
    I guess what I meant is that it's kind of unfortunate that all of those state of the art machines and designers, including Ferdinand Porsche and the like, have that taint hanging over their heads. I feel in my heart of hearts that they were designers and car lovers first and foremost - and knew enough to keep their heads down and their hands busy during that time and place.
    We're all grateful for so many of the innovations that occurred then, but I dont think anyone would argue that it would have been great if these things could have occurred without the Third Reich and all that occurred.
    I also apologize for your distant family. The history books are written by the victors, and it's not often that one stops to think about the families and victims on the other side of the coin.
     

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