Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by need louvers ?, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Alright guys if you don't know me by now let me introduce myself.
    First I don't get mad or hold a grudge over an honest discussion like this.
    I am the guy that has loved T buckets since the fifties (kookie kar) when I was in my teens but didn't/wouldn't start building one until I found the right steel body in the late '70s. It took me ten years to build because I wouldn't compromise on some parts. Steel body,V8 60 front axle,banjo diff, 40s Ford brakes. The things I did compromise on I have changed since. Mustang engine for '50 Cadillac, Corvair steering box for Ross. I know, better more reliable stuff for less reliable.
    Really if any of you think you can't find safe drum brakes or if you really think disks were traditional (used on a lot of buckets in the middle '60s and earlier) or that disks look good or it just doesn't matter I'll accept that.
    What I won't do is agree just so you will like me. Chip knows I've disagreed with stuff he has done.
    I know I take this shit too seriously But that's just me.
    Again guys I'm sorry for speaking and sticking to MY truth.
    Don't pay too much attention to me.
    Gary


     
  2. No offence taken Gary :) it would be sad sad world if we all thought the same:oops:
     
    26 T Ford RPU likes this.
  3. Hey Gary, we still love you and I do like your " Truth " but as mentioned by others, different driving styles on different roads with loony other drivers, some of us would prefer our brakes to work real good all the time. I too have experienced brake fade in my old '59 Ford more then once from driving it to our New Zealand conditions and I can say with some authority that it cause a certain hole in ones body to wriggle up real bad. The other more notably thing about us down under is the fact that we don't have shit loads of Buicks lying around our dismantling yards and to import look alikes is expensive. I personally do like the drums on the front of your car Gary and they look more at home tucked into the wheel rim as you have them then sticking out like those fake Buick drums do. The only thing I believe is that the discs have to be old solid rotos type like mine from a early to mid sixties English Ford Zephyr but even here in NZ they are harder to find now.
     
    26 T Ford RPU likes this.
  4. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Drums can work fine and the look can't be beat.
    The issue is that the effectiveness of drum brakes varies over a wide range as heat is absorbed...as in riding the brake down a steep hill or doing a lot of braking over a short period of time.
    The effectiveness of discs doesn't vary much so you don't get that "Hey...were did my brakes go!?!?" feeling when you finally need to completely stop at the bottom of a long winding road.
    With drums you need to be a lot more careful, do some gearing down as you come down that road and let the brakes keep their cool.
    It comes down to using quality parts within spec and most importantly, driving like you have drum brakes!
    Not many do though.
    I have big discs up front. HAD discs all around but went with drums out back last year.
     
  5. Me too! If we can't have an intelligent discussion around here, with passion and facts (real or imagined!), then we all ought to be totally boring Yes Men. I'm gonna shake your hand at LARS again this year (I hope!) and give you more crap/grief about being SO wrong! (Hey, just kidding! :D)

    Nor will I. Gary, you're a good influence 'round here because of your life experiences. Same with Chip and Missy'sDad and HalibrandSteve and all those billions of Kiwi's subscribed here! I'm just here for comic relief and to give different viewpoints -- maybe even paying Devil's Advocate now and again! Part of my job in "real life" (software designer/architect) is to ask questions and make sure people have thought through a problem/situation/need and have a broad view, not just what they think is important. I'm not at all reluctant to ask lots and lots and lots of "what if" questions and if that pisses off people then that's okay as long as we get the right solution in place in the end.

    Go ahead, be all serious on us. But I wanna make sure we all laugh and go Hmmmm a lot, too.

    Your truth is important, I just want to point out that there isn't just black and white, but lots of colors and shades of grey, too. I'm a curmudgeon and proud of it...

    Andy
     
    26 T Ford RPU likes this.
  6. Yeah... apparently there's 50! o_O

    Nah... just millions :p

    Glen.
     
  7. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    My car has the big ford drums on the quick change rear and a magnum axle company disc kit on the front.
    I'll be able to stop on a dime and give you 8 cents change over and over again reliably.
    I'm looking for function over form in that part of my build and that's my truth ;) :D
    Larry.
     
  8. I think we can all agree that this disc brake application on a bucket I saw last year is wrong on every level !!:eek:o_O
    In New Zealand, many traditional hot rod in the 60s-70s had 13-14'' front wheels and did not fit over the larger drums. Many just offset them to bolt on the drum face and most went with the MKIII and IV Zephyr discs as that's what we had here then and were a fairly easy fit to Ford stubs.
    Jeremy
    [​IMG]
     
    whiplash1923T likes this.
  9. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Larry
    I'm trying to figure out why it doesn't bother me as much that your rod has disk brakes. Maybe it's because it's (in my mind) not a "T Bucket". And that's a compliment. I get that others with them aren't as visually anal as I. "The Look" is very important to me and yes I am good with not as good braking for that visual. When I say "not a good" I still think my '40s Ford brakes are more than adequate for a 2,000 lb car. Others like Dana's Blue T that I like so well are going for a late '60s or '70s look and that is what was being done then.
    Gary

     
    dana barlow likes this.
  10. jalopy45
    Joined: Nov 5, 2005
    Posts: 529

    jalopy45
    Member

    It looks like if you don't like something don't use it, if you like it use it, Gary likes the Kookie Kar look, Chip goes for the 60's look, I like the bobtail look so no way can everyone be happy with someone elses car, but I appreciate the look and work that goes into the other cars , but I wouldn't copy any of them verbatum... :)
     
    loudbang and need louvers ? like this.
  11. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I'm good with that as I agree with you. In my mind my car is not a T Bucket. A T based roadster pickup hot rod ? Yes. A T bucket ? NO :)
     
  12. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,305

    missysdad1
    Member

    PotAto, potahto...tomAto, tomahto. Different strokes for different folks. The object of the exercise is that we all have safe brakes, right? Okay...now can we move on to something else? Please...
     
  13. Hey, does anyone here use a quick change? If so:
    1) Which one?
    2) Why that one?
    3) What ring-and-pinion ratio do you run?
    4) What quick change gear set do you run?
    5) What diff do you use?

    There, that'll get us off'n brakes for a while! :)
     
    missysdad1 likes this.
  14. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Winters V8 Nostalgia quickchange with their wedge lock differential. 3.78-1 ring and pinion and I have 3 sets of gears to play with :cool:
    With big Ford drum brakes ;):D
    Larry.
    winters 009 (2).jpg
     
  15. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Hot Rod Works up in Idaho make a near perfect reproduction of a Halibrand V8 type quick change. That would get my vote almost every time, but it is pretty pricey. For what you are contemplating engine wise, I'd still look at a Champ style quicky like the one I showed you at my joint last week. They are a bit big, but you can't beat them for cheap and available.
     
  16. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Now, briefly, I'm going to lay MY personal opinion on ya as far as disc brakes. See, one thing that few people think about is that you can fairly easily over brake the small tires we use on the front of these cars. Discs are the quick way to that end.

    Personally, on a fifties type car, there would be no way I would use them just strictly from an appearance stand point. An early sixties car? Pretty much the same, but with one caveat... See, if you really look, some of the gasser class cars were starting to use "spot" brakes on front applications. Matter of fact, Hurst/Airheart tooled and patterned up to make their 150 and 175 series calipers in '62, and they also saw time on roundy round cars at the time. So the technology WAS there, and was in use. By the way, "spot' brakes is the term for disc brakes before "disc" was used.

    So, if a customer came to me and said, "I want disc brakes", I'd do what I have done with Roy twice now, and grab some Hurst/Airheart 150 calipers (Magnesium goodness as close as your Speedway catalog and only about 135.00 each) and design some brackets that look like the race stuff in use in the early sixties... The calipers are sized to the small tires we run, too.

    I'd show both of Roy's kits and the ones I made for another, but they are all on Motorcycle type wheels as a later sixties car would have, and I am really trying not to get any more confusing than need be, but the whole deal isn't that hard to do.

    So that is where I stand on the disc brake thing. Ya, most cars did run the drums, and drums work awesome on our cars because of the tire and wheel stagger that we chose, but if ya gotta have 'em, make them look the part.

    Or not, it's your car, not mine!
     
    k1w1rodder and Dick Stevens like this.
  17. And that folks pretty well sums up what I was trying to say, the roto's and callipers must atleast look as if they are from a vehicle in the era that one is building too. Hence us here in NZ using the likes of Mk111 Zed car front brakes. I realise it isn't much of a photo of the brake itself but one can see that the whole set up isn't too in your face wrong with my mid 60's era. 317 (2).jpg
     
  18. I like early style, solid rotor discs - the single puck 150 and 175 HAs are a perfect example but even some of the dual piston models can look right on a 60s style build. Maybe not quite as traditional, but a favorite look of mine, is liberally drilled solid rotors - screams racecar!

    Surprisingly, given my username, I'm not a huge fan of Halibrand calipers. They are more appropriate for roundy-round stuff in my opinion - midgets and sprints. Having said that, I would love to own a complete set of Halibrand Lobster calipers - had some for an old Indy-inspired hot rod project that never happened but they were in pretty tough shape - would be great to get a mint set.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
    need louvers ? likes this.
  19. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    The voice of reason. Thanks Chip.
    Gary

     
  20. The May issue of Hot Rod Deluxe is out and chock full of T goodness! Two T bucket features, one Track T feature, and a couple of pic's of the Debenedictis (Sp) T.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
  21. Mike
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 3,540

    Mike
    Member

    Chip is the voice of reason? Uh oh.....:)
     
    need louvers ? and nitrobrother like this.
  22. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    I guess Mike that is a Crazy world.

     
    need louvers ? likes this.
  23. Tim_with_a_T
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,357

    Tim_with_a_T
    Member

    Well, I thought I would give a small update on my progress. I've been messing around with the tri power a bit. It seems like these carbs do not like much fuel pressure. I've switched from steel needles to viton, played around with float levels, and switched from a high performance mechanical pump (and fancy regulator that didn't seem to do anything) to a stock pump.

    The stock pump puts out a steady 6 psi unregulated, and the secondaries just weep the entire time. After I shut down the engine, the primary joins in the weeping. For all I know, it's dripping right along with the secondaries the entire time. I've read several threads stating conflicting information on this (anywhere from 3.5-6 psi recommended), but my main question is how come the stock tri power units didn't need a regulator??? I have a different regulator to try, but this question is bugging me.

    If I hold each carb top inverted and blow on the fuel inlet with my mouth, I can't get the needle to lift off the seat. So it seems like that's working as it should, but the unregulated stock pump is still overcoming them I guess. Any input on this? Whiplash, I know you're running 3 Rochester's. What is your fuel pressure?

    On another note, I got some fenders in the mail today, so I've been brainstorming about that, too. Input/thoughts always welcome as usual haha.

    1427349835579.jpg
     
    KiwiGlen likes this.
  24. Tim, I like the look and I find it cool that you have created your own look for you T :cool::cool::D
    Jeremy
     
  25. Hi Tim, I honestly can't take any credit for setting up and tuning my tri power apart from writing out the cheques to pay the people who did. First though is I don't have a regulator or pressure gauge on my fuel line so can't actually give you a reading. Secondly is that I have replaced the electric fuel pump as I burnt the Holley one I ran due to a fuel blockage. I would have to go out to the car now to see what brand and what pressure the new pump is tomorrow and let you know. All I can tell you is that after I had purshased the tri-power sight unseen from LA. and had it stashed away in a hot rod coming out in a container, it arrived minus the mid carb, I had a heap of trouble finding a matching carb. I them send the whole manifold with carbs to a specialist Carb shop here in Auckland who reassured me that they knew how to rebuild them and correctly set them up as a tri-power at a great cost to find they were full of bullshit. So to get the car running excellent the manifold and carbies were set to a guy in Wellington, the other end of the North Island , who repairs and sets up tri-powers for a hobby at home but I think with shipment it cost another $1000.00 but well worth it.
     
  26. Hey Tim, do you have to run fenders on your open wheeled cars in Canada ? I do like the fibreglass ones you have decided on though and I think you mentioned that you will be driving your T most days so the fenders will help in that respect.
     
  27. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Tim, I believe that you need a good accurate fuel pressure regulator and a gauge near the carbs so that you can set and run the maximum pressure of about 2 psi.
    That should solve your problems.
    Where did you get the fenders ?

    o_O Marc, Tim doesn't live in Canada :)
     
  28. steel rebel
    Joined: Jun 14, 2006
    Posts: 3,604

    steel rebel
    Member Emeritus

    Tim
    Get and install one of these. You just don't know how much fuel pressure you have without a gauge. Don't trust what any regulator says. I went through hell trying to find out what was wrong with my roadster when I put one of those chrome adjustable ones on. I had it set at 4 lbs and in a while it started running bad. Anyway after changing everything I finally installed the gauge and found it was down to seas than one. Set it of seven and in a few months it was back down to one. I guess the regulator was swelling. Anyway put a gauge on it.
    Can't believe I'm saying this but I like those fenders. And as much rain as you get up there (send some down here) they will make it possible to drive your rod more.

    Gary
    SANY0050.jpg
     
  29. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,652

    brad2v
    Member

    I really like the fenders Tim, but generally speaking, I'm a fan of cycle fenders anyway. Looks good.
     
  30. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,459

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I'm wondering where he bought the fenders, I am very soon going to try my hand at rolling out some hand made steel ones for my RPU. :)
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.