Projects The bucket of ugly! A de-uglifying thread...

Just yankin' yer chain, Chip! I've BEEN to Phoenix in the summahtime and wouldn't argue with you for a moment. I can also sympathize with roadster owners who live in rainy climates. I guess it's just that I really like the profile your bucket has and can't see it being improved by the addition of a top. Butcha' gotta' do whatcha' gotta do to keep from frying yer brain.

 

Remember oh so long ago the guy built a no door T with a flip back top.

 

Fuzzy, several that fit that description come to mind, but the two most famous were probably Sunkist and Moonkist.
Here's a link that shows really good views of the tops open (not my photo's, hence the link).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/47301693@N05/4338012474/

 

Not a bucket, (and I am probably biased, considering my own project) but Anderegg's is the first one that springs to my mind when someone mentions flip-up tops on T's.

 

I really think cutting a door in the body would be easier and simpler than all that mechanism. But to each his own. I think we are getting into '70s stuff with that. I like to adhere to the KISS philosophy.

 

True, I've wanted to cut a door in mine MANY times.....but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon because the paint and upholstery are still in really good shape and I don't feel like redoing them right now.

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Yep... just spent last week in your area (Tucson & Phoenix). That heat is ridiculous and I'm no stranger to heat....originally from Louisiana. Was able to handle it in the shade but that sun is only about half as far away there. Don't envy you a bit. So, the only choice I see is a top or a period correct golf umbrella.

 

Chip, how would a rear differential mounted alternator work? I realize that you're only charging if you're rolling, but if you put a good battery in it and kept a battery tender on it at night, would it suffice?

Years ago, I drew up a plan to have a hidden alternator that ran off of a jackshaft. My idea was to have essentially an idler pulley that mounted on the driver's side front of the engine, where the power steering pump usually mounts. The back of the pulley had a flange that a shaft mounted to, and the alternator would mount to the side of the transmission. I would have had to run an oil filter relocator. I was planning to use one of the bitchin little alternators that you see on the late model imports. I never went through with the idea, but I think it's possible that it could work. It's just a ton of work for such little aesthetic result.

Wouldn't it be cool if they were able to design a combination starter and alternator? The alternator could mesh with the flywheel all of the time, and the solenoid would drive from the alternator to the starter motor instead of vice versa.

 

Here we are talking about our tops and nobody blinks an eye, not even to the fact that most of us are running around topless! Remember a bit ago we were all talking about our butts? LOL.

Here is the beginnings of my top. I looked at many threads before this, but Dana ' s and MrModelT ' s were of the most influential, so thank you! I used 1/2" EMT conduit as I already have a bender and it's really cheap - like $2 for 10'. All of the hardware are boat related (Bimini top pieces). Definitely still in the mock up stages - as in taped and clamped together, but here's an idea:





And it all folds up nicely:



After playing with the height a bit, I figured I might as well waste 2 rolls of bright yellow tape haha. I have determined my windshield needs about a 2" haircut as the top kinda has a running uphill look... but we're getting there!





I asked my dad to help me with a header board as I have virtually no wood working tools. Here are a couple progress shots:





Lastly, the Bimini style "tube hinges" I found are really flimsy and won't remain locked in a horizontal position (hence the clamps in the middle of the top), so I had some aluminum pieces made to remedy this.. still sorting that out and not sure it's the right direction, but anyway, I think you can see where I'm going.


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Looks like your going great guns on that top job Tim. said;
" I have determined my windshield needs about a 2" haircut "

Be for lowering the top of windsheild,,I'd do some real checking on how your going to really be setting in your seat and ,how well you can see a stoplight if your first or 2 car at the stop{looking through it not over it,be sure not to have to lean a lot forword,a little lean is fine to see up. As for and down hill look,just run center bow up a in. or so. Too low a windsheild is bad in too many ways to list. How drivible your hotrod is should be befor some idea of what looks cool to ya at the time,nothing is less cool then a hotrod that dose not get driven much cuz it drives badly uncomefortible =5 stars for great driving hotrods,but no stars for undrivible no matter how cool some that dose not know better thinks it looks.

 

Have to be careful, most tops you see on buckets now days look pretty cartoonish to me.
Here's a top I built 30+ years ago, thought the proportions came out pretty good. 3/8" x 1" steel flat bar frame with oak tack strips. The Haartz cloth is pretty faded; but still hanging in there. Warning! You have to kinda squint your eyes so you miss all the geegaws, wire wheels, etc that have added by misguided subsequent owners.

 

Tim with a T and Rich B, Like em' both! I have to admit Tim, when I saw the first picture of yours with just the frame I said - "Oh, boat stuff..." But seeing it with two rolls of yellow tape I really do like the shape and it does hide the interlocking folding ends very well. I can't help but wonder what it might look like with another inch or two of height on the main bow, though rather than chopping the windshield.

I'm trying hard right now to dig up an article that Tom Medley did in the early seventies when he was just finishing up the Volksrod. He had Bob Lee of Pasadena do the top for that car, and if you don't know that name, dig into your Don Montgomery books and check out his stuff. He was THE guy to take hot rod to for a top in the forties and fifties in L.A. The article gives a breakdown of measurements to get the height and proportions right, then goes through and shows where to pad and where not to pad to get things just so. And, even with Medley's unchopped windshield, it's dead on right looking to my eye. As soon as I can find it I'll scan and post it...

Oh, another great T-Bucket top.... Royal Shifter's!

 

Rich, I'm assuming you had to bend the oak strips over the bows you made. How bad was this to do? Wood and I don't always get along, but I'm willing to beat myself to death trying if there is a reasonable chance of success...

 

I'm not a wood worker either, so I cheated. I used 3/4" x 1" oak strips on the main sections and cut the curved sections out of 5/4 oak boards (kinda like the how the wood is shaped around the fenders on woodies, except without the finger joints). The 3/8" steel frame was strong enough to hold the crown when I screwed the oak strips down.
I used the R&C/Hot Rod quarterly article you mentioned as guide. That series of quarterlies sure was a great source of tech info, still is for that matter.

 

Dana and Chip, yeah I will agree with you that the top still needs some tuning. I did this in early June and haven't touched it since, simply because I am not sure what I want to do about it lol. I did sit in the car on a few garage sessions for my lunch break, just eating a sandwich and looking through the windshield with the tape top to see if I felt comfortable in there and liked the view.

I will agree hands down that Royal Shifter's top is the quintessential T bucket top. Pure sex. There is another T I have a photo of that's saved on my laptop that has a really decent looking top. I'll try to remember to post it later tonight after work.

Since I live where it rains all the time, I get a lot of grief from friends on why I am building a roadster. I definitely want to incorporate cycle fenders and rain curtains so that it is capable of all weather driving. I will most likely get a pair of 7.50-16 Firestone bias ply's to mount on another pair of wheels. Run the Firestones 9 months out of the year and switch to the Hurst cheaters for the other 3. Anyway, carry on...

 

“Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.”

― Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

 

Awesome! ^^^^

 

I guess I'm not sure what 5/4 boards are.... Probably time to research! I have a friend that is a world class wood guy that just rolls his eyes and gets ready to help every time I pick up a piece of material that isn't metal.

I forgot that series of articles is in the quarterlies. I always go for the soft bound book they did of mostly quarterly stuff in the early eighties called HOW TO BUILD A STREET ROD. The R&C Quarterlies were indeed some of the best tech that has EVER been written, and probably ever will. Mine are all worn out and taped back together after the last thirty five years of constant reference.

 

5/4 boards are just wood that is a full inch thick after it is milled, you know like 1x boards are actually 3/4" thick after milling. Used them so the thickness matched the width of 3/8x1 steel since they were used on edge.

 

Royal Shifters T is the only one out there now that I like better than mine. He got it all right. I wouldn't change a thing on it. And believe me I have looked. I haven't seen it except in pictures and have never met him. Looking forward to doing both.
Gary

 

We built one years ago (I think you can buy a kit these days) that mounted off a 9" Ford's Pumpkin mounting studs. It worked ok, but wouldn't really keep up with the draw in traffic (especially at night), and you no longer have the option of clicking the car in neutral and reving it. The starter / alternator idea intrigues me though. Seems like it wouldn't be "that" hard to do. definitely going to be some custom machining involved. You might actually have a problem overspeeding the alternator using a ring gear to drive it though, maybe a gear reduction setup of some kind would fix that. You could also run a remote oil filter and just mount it on the opposite side from the starter.

 

Chip Chip Chip I just remembered something !!! There is a water pump Alt that they use on race cars. 35 amp. It is incased in the water pump pully. Looks just like a regular pully but it has an alt inside!! I think the armature is affixed to the water pump and the field is in the pully.

 

A bit ot but years ago I owned a 60's motorcycle of the oriental kind that used a starter/ generator system so the idea is not new. Just have to see if any of the major car makers ever thought the same.

 

Okay guys we are building an early '60s T bucket. Witch is really pretty easy. I don't see any reason to cheat. A good GM gen. like I run or any '60s alternator will do fine. Why make this any harder or more complicated than is has to be. You can still get that shit at Napa Auto or chrome stuff on ebay.

 

I was going to mention that I had used that type of deal many years ago on a Model "A", and it's basically a H.D. alternator under the water pump pulley.

But, Steel Rebel above is absolutely right. I can go trick on this deal really quickly and kill the spirit of the deal even quicker. Best to keep it simple, use stuff that was commonly available at that particular time, and use my head to make it neat and tidy. I think my answer might end up being the Chrysler alt. I pulled one out the other day (along with my cleanest short pump) and cleaned it up a bit, then got so damned busy that I haven't had time to even walk out do some basic mockup type stuff... Next couple of days will get it...

 

Exactly, the point of this build is to do it era correct, not cheat to make it look close
It would be good for someone who just wants it to look cleaner, though

 

This is all excellent information on tops guys as I too live in a country where, gladly not as bad as Portland Or., we can get all four seasons in one day and just to keep us on our toes, our hale can be the size of golf balls too and come out of nowhere. I have cut up my one piece roof or top to make a folding top. The lines of the top was very good and complimented the car when on so will stick faily close to those lines. Sorry I haven't got any photo's of the car with the top on. One thing I must say though is that a good top must be slightly wider across the top od the screen to keep the lines correct. Also the side view of the top must be parallel with the body line otherwise there are just too many angles confusing the lines. Here is a photo of another top that I have keep as I think it is close to right too.

 

The top on Royal shifters T is the perfect height. Any taller (like most others) and they look like a cartoon caricature car.

This Rod Tops top is awesome too.

 

I'm thinking that your windshield is too tall and maybe the top too ? Is there headroom for you to drop it all down to a better height appearance wise ?

 

On the other hand do you want to look at an UGLY top for the rest of your life just because you don't want to lean a little forward to see a signal light? There is nothing safe in these cars. If you want a safe car buy a Volvo. We're talking about taking the ugly out of T buckets not making them safe. Safe and ugly are the same when it comes to buckets.