Technical The 283 that wouldn't run right

Got my overhaul book, got the engine apart, cam was flat on one lobe. Rented a ridge reamer and got the ridges out of the cylinders, they weren't too bad. pistons out and started to hone the glaze off the cylinder walls with the type of hone that has 3 stones.Nowhere did anyone say how long to hone the cylinders. It seemed to take less than 30 seconds per cylinder to get rid of the glaze. Is that all the time you need to do it?
And if the pistons and bearings are other than standard size won't they be marked as such? Can't seem to find any markings on them. I don't have any micrometers. And, can I change the main bearings while the crank is still in the engine? (engine is still in the car)
Thanks guys

 

1. Go to Harbor Freight and buy a cheap cherry picker
2. Pull the block and completely disassemble it
3. Take the block and crank to a local machine shop and have them tell you if it has been bored and the crank ground. They may need to bore the block and grind the crank.
4. Disassemble the heads and check the valve seating and stem slop.
5. Check pricing on a new crate engine. (1600.00)
6. Now you are ready to make your decision.

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if there's a ridge, that needed to be reamed, then the block needs to be bored for the overhaul to last a long time. The ridge is from the rings wearing the bore just below the top of the bore, resulting in taper in the bore.

You can do it right and spend a lot of money, or you can do just what it takes to get it running again. If you can't afford to do it right, and remove the engine, etc, you can indeed change the bearings with the crank in the engine, in the car. Make sure to mark the caps so they go back on where they came from, hopefully you already did the rod caps!

Oversize pistons are stamped on top (usually) with the oversize, such as 030 or something. Bearings are stamped on the backside with the undersize, such as 010 or something. If there are no size marks, and the engine looks like it's been together a long long time, then it's probably still standard.

you'll want to check the bearing clearances on at least one rod, and one main bearing with plastigage before you put it all back together.

Cleaning the honing residue out will be fun, make sure you get all the grit out!

It's neat to see someone doing a good old fashioned in car engine overhaul these days...hope it work ok when you're done! but don't expect it to last more than 10-20k miles.

 

3stone hone isn't the best for an overhaul, if the cylinders are a bit swoopy the 3 stone try's to straighten them out before it breaks the glaze. Not horrible to use a 3 stone but a ball hone will follow the cylinder as it is and just break the glaze. It doesn't take very long at all and there are several ways that work well.

Changing a crank and bearings on your back with engine block in the car is possible but I wouldn't even think about trying.

 

Because of my type and size of " garage" and it's location and accesibility it's best that I overhaul the engine in the car. I know crate engines are cheap, but getting one in here and swapping it out is super trouble if not downright impossible

 

And it's traditional.... (just to shut up the naysayers)

 

I bet there were many an engine overhauled in the car way back yonder. Probably laying on a dirt or gravel floor, too. Not the best way to do it for sure, but you do what you have to do!

 

when I got my 57 suburban in 1998, I took out the 235. Several years later my son and I took it apart. It was obvious the block had never been out of the truck, but it was also obvious that it had been worked on more than once. One of the rods had been replaced, and it required a .060 bore to clean up the taper in the Standard size bores! yes, it had a rod knock.

 

Traditional would be if you tied a bunch of rope around the rafters in your garage and hoisted that bad boy out. Followed by a proper rebuild. Thats how I pulled my first engine. Safe? Probably not. I bought a hoist after that.

 

My Dad who was a real " waste not, want not " kind of person overhauled the engine in his 1953 Plymouth in our garage at least twice, maybe 3 times. He was an aircraft mechanic and when the car needed an overhaul he would take vacation days and do it. Rings, bearings, and grind the valves by hand. He had that car forever. His brothers always kidded him that it was going to fall apart from metal fatigue

 

I agree with squirrel. Almost. New rings and bearings will probably last 50,000+ miles. They did back in the '50s. And material and oil is much better now.

Ben

 

I've found that the amount of taper in the cylinders has a lot to do with how long an overhaul lasts. With a lot of taper, the rings are expanding and contracting every time the piston goes up and down, and that wears out the bottom of the ring, and the ring lands.

ymmv.

 

i aint impossible, i did it in a dirt floor 16x20

 

We re-ringed a flathead in the car a few years ago. Just like the old days.

 

Pull a piston. Remove the top ring. Set it in the cylinder, just below the ring ridge. Measure the gap with feeler gauges. (say it's .020"; just for numerical use. It will probably be more like .016", but humor me.)
Push the ring down approximately 3". Now measure end gap at that location. It will measure less than the original value taken, so subtract the difference.
As circumference is the avenue of measurement here, multiply the difference by 3. This will give you a very close estimate of the taper in thousandths, diametrically.
.008" is the maximum taper (diameter) if cast rings are used... .006" or less is preferable.

 

I hadn't thought of measuring taper this way , but you sure can't argue with the math. And you used the word diametrically. Correctly! Should work fine for this kind of rebuild.

You'll get the most accurate measurement by making sure the ring is square in the bore. Easy way to do that...? Turn a piston upside down and use it to push the ring down where you want it in the cylinder.

 

A cheapie Chinese made hoist is $200 or so. And you'll have it for next year when it's needed if you don't do a total rebuild.

I would buy a mic, even a cheap one to get an idea where your at. Home Depot has some for $20. A dial bore gauge is best, but you can "get by," without one.

Basically using the three stone hone, you'll see a half inch(or more) or so that it doesn't touch under the ridge you cut off. This is where the rings are needed most, during power stroke and where that taper will hurt power and add to blow by the most.

When time is available but money isn't you do what you have to. But sometimes patience allows it to be done right...so maybe a compromise...think about it a bit.


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I've seen engines with both fantastic compression and ridges.

Ok guys, here's a pet peeve of mine.
No machinist would ever hone or bore without a torque plate- EVER!
So why don't they measure cylinders under inspections with a plate too.
Seems every engine block measure out of spec without a plate and then they write a rebuild.

Also a ball hone should be used if you are honing for glaze without a torque plate because it will follow the existing cylinder walls

 

uh...yeah....sure.

 

Maybe I should have added "that I know of "

Apparently you know some who do bore and finish hone without a torque plate

 

None of mine ever got the torque plate treatment....EVER!

I wonder how they even run?

 

it's no secret the torquing the head bolts distorts the cylinder walls and why torque plates are used
Maybe taper and a bit of variance isn't as big of a big issue

My point is something other than this is becoming

Why use a plate to finish hone but don't use one to check and inspect. That's the issue. Since you don't use a plate then possibly some basic logic pulled from your background might work

 

Don't replace the rings without resurfacing the valves and installing valve stem seals. It's a very good idea to check the cylinders with an old ring and feelers gauge. You are now bordering on blueprints the engine. Also check your bearings with plastigauge.

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I hate spell check!

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Took the heads to an engine rebuilding shop. What a place, like a trip back in time, every old machine tool you can think of, and the 1950's garage smell. The "head" man told me the engine had been sitting a long time at some point in its life. Rusty exhaust valves, and all the oil gunk in the combustion chambers was from bad seals and maybe guides. Quoted me $350 to $400 to completly go through the heads and also install hardened seats. He looked at a few pistons and rods I had with me and told me they were stock bore pistons and standard size rod bearings. Said pistons and bearings looked good. I'll install new rings and rod bearings. He told me to take one of the middle main caps off and look at the bearing. Do the drag a penny trick and if all looks good just put it back together and leave the mains alone. He gave me a big talk about a zinc additive for the oil to prevent cams from going flat. Said modern oils have been changed to work with catalytic converters.

 

why not do the mains it's cheap enough...and yes zinc is good stuff.

 

An import dial bore gage is $60 to $70 and very useful. you can check main bearing bores , rod big ends along with cylinder bores. Lisle sells a rigid hone that will remove material from cylinders and remove taper and is run off a 1/2 in drill. If you could find +.020 pistons and patience, you could do a decent rebuild in the car.

 

Those old 283 castings are NOT the lightweights of today. Torque plate makes little or no difference to them. Set the ring gap at the tightest spot on each cylinder so you don't butt them when hot. Oil pan should come off with the crank turned in the right position. May have to lift it a little to clear a cross member. Do one bearing at a time. Use cheap Hastings or Federal Mogul rings in it. You'll be alright.

 

never heard of the "drag a penny trick"...'splain Lucy.

 

Penny is soft but has a pretty good edge. Drag a penny along the journals and feel for irregularities. Similar to the fingernail trick.