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Technical TECH WEEK ---- Repairing shaved gutters/drain rails

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HOTRODPRIMER, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work fine a your Chevy. HRP
     
  2. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    With my previously stated concerns about heat warpage, I,m wondering about brazing instead of welding. It's strong aplenty and much less heat. However I don't know about compatibility with body filler.
    Back in the dirt oval days that gave me my username decades before Al Gore "invented the internet",I ran Chevy II bodies which were just gutted shells, hung on a roll cage welded to a shortened and rear pinched '55-57 frame.
    The first was a 2dr. hdtop, and I built the cage for it. Later I discovered the 2 dr post top was about 2" taller from floor (which was from a '55-57 body) to the top. So, from then on I chopped the tops on the 2dr post bodies to fit my roll cage for a 2dr hdtp. I used brass rod for lower heat and less warpage. Warpage was low enough to get by on a bull ring car without any thing but blend grind, sand, and paint.
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  3. Dave,more than 30 years ago I decided to remove all the trim on my 1965 Ford Custom Cab pickup and I opted to use brass rod and a torch to fill the dimpled holes and then did my body work.

    That truck was my daily driver for many years,today that old truck is sitting in the barn awaiting it's turn for resurrection,but the areas where I used the brass are cracking out,I don't know if it is because of the moisture in a unheated/un-insulated environment like my barn or it's the nature of the beast when working with brass. HRP
     
  4. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    This was a shock to me...the use of steel rod as rain gutters. (I had thought about it in the '70s, but dismissed it before even trying it...the idea of solid rod welded onto body sheet metal?
    Well, 'Shut ma mouth'!
    This is the cream of what can flow from the HAMB. Great tutorial, complete execution of a good idea.

    On brass & brazing:
    I remember R&C 'Little Pages' touting the use of brass. "Brazing instead of welding reduces warpage, is easier to grind down," etc., etc. So I did some brazing on my roadster body.
    My older friend/mentor Ritchie came over and asked why I wasn't welding.
    He enlightened me to the acid in the flux, and showed me some examples in weeks to follow...
    Rust, bubbles under paint, all the ills of poor repair work.
    I never brazed again...and it made me a better oxy/acet welder.
    Many thanks for this great idea, Danny. I'm going to use it!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  5. Thanks Mike. HRP
     
  6. NewGuyOldFord
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 596

    NewGuyOldFord
    Member

    Would this work on a 48 ford sedan? Thanks and great work.
     
  7. Yes sir,I believe it will work on any car that needs repair. HRP
     
  8. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    When I was @ Fisher Body/GM Lakewood in ATL we used brazing in several places on the bodies on a production basis on every car coming down the line in certain spots and in body repair. This was before MIG welding in he late '50s and up thru the '67, which is when I left during an extended "RIF" layoff. The online production brazing was done with bare brass alloy rod and the flux was introduced by being injected into the acetylene gas. The repair work was done with the flux coated rods similar to those sold @ welding supply stores. No paint problems, but the whole car body was dipped in a "Bonderite" vat and rinsed before priming. I'm remembering that bonderite was an alkali solution that etched the metal. Perhaps it also neutralized the brazing flux as well as the tinning flux used for applying the body lead. The production line leading was done with a painted on flux/tinning powder solution that only had to be heated to the point of melting the tinning powder and wiped while still molten and it was well tinned. However, in repair operations using lead, we used an acid like you see in all the U tube, etc. videos on leading along with a stick of lead/ tin 70/30 The solder on the line was 50/50.
    Called a friend this am who worked for GM on up til a few years ago and he said EPA and OSHA made GM quit using brazing on an every car down the line basis because the flux, when heated, emiited a dangerous and toxic gas vapor. They went to silicon bronze rod for the spots requiring a low temp fdusing and that change also meant that almost all lead work had to be halted as it was incompatible with the silicon bronze, and a bondo type filler is now used where filler is required.
    I have used silicon rod in a few things for tig welding or in this case, brazing and you use no flux with it on clean metal because the argon stops the oxidation like the vapors from the flux did with brass rod. It also bonds at a much lower temp that steel rod in welding, and since GM uses plastic filler over it, perhaps that would be an alternative where warpage is a problem?
     
  9. So tacking the rod on to the body and filling it with Bondo is now an acceptable modification. I think the standards have slipped quite a bit.
    I have seen more than one hood peak done like that and they eventually bubble the paint from rust.
    It should be welded solid or a real channel bent and spot welded on to do the job right.
     
  10. Excuse me if I don't agree and you are entitled to your opinion,sorry if you think this is a half ass way of doing it or a sub standard repair.

    The only way you to can do this repair like it was preformed at the factory is separate the top from the body,the original gutter is sandwiched between both.

    Please feel free to post a tutorial showing the members here the correct way to facilitate this repair. HRP
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  11. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    People are always saying something similar to above about the rust cracking the paint. Could it more likely be the rust forming because the paint cracked, either from improper application techniques or compatibiluty of materials?
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  12. Paint Guru
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 522

    Paint Guru
    Member
    from Bowdon, GA

    I agree with you, there is no reason to Weld solid. More people will screw stuff up welding solid vs spot welds. If you want solid, put panel bond and spot weld. This is the way all collision repairs are made with any new replacement quarter panels, door skins etc. The drip rails also are non structural, another reason not to Weld solid. And if you are worried about rust prime with Weld through primer first.
    His bodywork and welds will outlast the shine of the vehicle regardless. And it was done fairly quick. I would pay for that type of repair all day!!
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  13. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,264

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Fiberglass filler will prevent any moisture from entering that seam. Welding solid just opens the door to warpage. Great tech!!
     
  14. Thanks guys,I appreciate your comments. HRP
     
    Petejoe likes this.
  15. SicSpeed
    Joined: Apr 23, 2014
    Posts: 656

    SicSpeed
    Member
    from Idaho

    Looks great
    My 56 F100 has a gutter problem and this is the approach I was going use
    It looks great on that Sedan
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  16. xhotrodder
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,665

    xhotrodder
    Member

    I'm not trying to steal anyone's thunder here but, a friend of mine mig welded a piece of brake line in place of my removed gutters. That came out nice also. Just offering another alternative. Now back to this thread.
     
  17. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    UHH OHHH !!!!! Maybe you need to go back and read the earlier posts! You may not be so happy about your friend's work!
     
  18. xhotrodder, I hope you don't end up like this guy. HRP

     
  19. Great solution! Just wondering how the ends of the rod were finished to neatly blend them in - sanded to a taper or?

    Steve
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  20. Not only looks better but ads structure to a car that is going to get driven.

    Looks good my friend. ;)
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  21. Good question that I didn't address,the front of the rod was simply cut off and slightly ground just to take the sharp edge off,pointed down there was no reason to taper this end but on the rear we did grind it to blend with the drip rail. HRP
     
  22. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    MP&C
    Member

    Danny, nice fix.. Not many cars can pull off the no drip rails look, good to see that one get em back again..
     
    HOTRODPRIMER likes this.
  23. Thank you Robert,coming from you it means a lot!

    And a shameless bump.HRP
     
  24. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 13,174

    Budget36
    Member

    I could have been bribed with a T-Shirt ;)
     
  25. Tn. Trash
    Joined: Apr 21, 2015
    Posts: 301

    Tn. Trash
    Member

    Great tech thread, repair looks nice. That last pic looks like the factory rail, outstanding job.
    Nice looking sedan BTW.
     
  26. After it was brought up that I had posted this in the past and me not reading the rules of the tech week I thought it best to have Paul delete the thread,trying to avoid drama.

    I do appreciate the positive comments here and the Conversations and phone calls questing asking why the tech was not showing up. HRP
     
  27. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 12,594

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I have use this method to bring the body line around the hole I cut in a hood of a 66 Chevelle for a blower so the body line split and went around the hole.
     
  28. raymay
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 2,532

    raymay
    Member

    Great solution and nicely done.
    I have long been a fan of using round stock on my builds. Just yesterday the Station Wagon tension rod from a current built that caused me 7 stitches last year was used to repair a broken axle on a vintage pedal car.
    When I converted a 37 Chevy Pickup into a Kingcab the original drip gutter just did not look right with the cab modification. I welded round stock to the cab and formed a longer drip edge giving the cab a more factory look. This was done in the early 90's and I to used body filler over my welds. Recently got the truck back and there are no signs of body filler failure along the drip edges.
    We also used round stock to balance out the gauge panel and glove box door on a 33 Plymouth build I am helping a friend with.

    42.jpg 3358.JPG 3357.JPG
     
  29. Nicely done. HRP
     
  30. verno30
    Joined: Aug 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,148

    verno30
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks great. Thanks for sharing
     

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