Technical SBC, still doesn't start

No fire from the HEI you have with a jumper? Even with the new module in it?
If not, just put the old point dizzy back in and run the battery jumper to the input side of ballast resistor/output side to coil+ and the bypass wire from solenoid to coil+. Test for spark.

 

Prety much everything has been covered so for future reference when removing a dizzy always jog the engine till rotor points to front of car. As long as the engine doesnt get turned you can reinstall dizzy without messing with top dead and all of that. Even if it sits for months you will always know where to orient the rotor because you always pull them out the same way every time. Hope this helps. You will get it going and have a great summer.

 

If 94 replies on this thread can't get a stock 283 running there's other forces at work here...

 

You got spark with a jumper. From there you can sort it all out. Get a 12V KEY ON source with a 10ga wire and you're done. Forget the rest, forget how the starter used to be wired. HEI is too simple and can sometimes cause the angst shared within your topic and the replies. Good luck...

 

You do not need the other dizzy.

6 banger Tim lined out how to test the module- but before those tests can lead to conclusive results, you MUST know the voltage that's going into the system while cranking.

Trouble shooting any component is just two simple things. 1st Knowing, measuring and verifying the designed and required input. 2nd knowing, measuring and verifying the designed and required out put. THAT'S all there is to it for anything that man has ever thought of. Maybe there's 47,000 inputs or maybe there's just 1. Your "no spark" situation begins with just 2. They are full cranking battery voltage to system while cranking and that the rotor is turning. by swapping in another dizzy, and getting spark only with the jumper that tells you where the Problem is. It builds to more than measuring 2 inputs and outputs from here, but its still the same two concepts, know measure & verify required input and output. Notice who there's ZERO parts changing yet

Pretty easy to tell if the rotor is turning.
So what's the available cranking voltage?
Just Measure voltage at the battery while cranking- that's it.
Now does that satisfy the minimum requirements for the ignition system?
If not, you need to solve the low voltage problem first.
If yes, is that full cranking voltage being delivered to the ignition system?
If no, then solve that problem first.
The jumper wire took the place of solving this problem momentarily.
If yes, then test the next component in the chain, the module.

But remember, you'll never get the designed out put without the required input. If you can remember that, you'll not spend any money or time changing out good parts.

Once you have the "no spark" problem solved, you then can move onto the "no start" problem. That involves compression and F A S T, compression first then Fuel, air, spark timing.

 

This should tell you something.

If it was mine I would disconnect EVERY wire from the cab, Every wire from EVERYwhere attached to the distributor &/or engine. Including any wire from the starter solenoid.

Feed the distributor 12v from a battery not connected to anywhere else on the truck & start the engine by itself completely divorced from any connection to anywhere else. This includes generator/ Alternator & voltage regulator. Start it as if it was on a pallet in a field.

A lot of what you describe indicates a fairly heavy short in the wiring which is pulling voltage low.

 

WOW!
I see you have said that with the jumper wire you have spark....right? If so did it run with the jumper wire?

 

No

 

Here's the pic I promised.
Busy day with the family on my day off and spring break for the kids. I'll get at it with updates, as soon as I can get at it.

 

That condencer is for radio static suppression. When they go bad you hear it in the radio speakers as a whine that changes with RPM.
Should look similar to this.

 

I don't see advance mech. ,is that electronic spark control dist. ?? Could be the problem....
dave

 

Where's the weights and springs?

 

The rotor IS turning.
Both valves are closed, when set to TDC.
I did the test 6-bangertim suggested. The light was bright, and dimmed when I turned it over.

Turned the switch ON, with a jumper from the battery. Used the remote starter to start it, manually pumped carb only twice, to avoid flooding. It did NOT start.

When I have more time, be it tonite or tomorrow. I will start from square one. Everything disconnected as if it's on a stand. I'm removing all plugs, and make sure they're clean and dry. Engine is at TDC on the compression stroke. Jumper from battery to + on cap/coil. Romote starter from battery to S on solenoid. Timing 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Anything else I'm missing? Just want to keep it as simple as possible. Then I will add shit, and if it fails after plugging something in, hopefully, that will identify the issue.
The picture is my reference to this whole deal.

Can't thank you enough for your input, and hanging in there with me, through about 100 posts. And when we figure this out, I'm not too proud to admit it was me that was wrong.

 

Does it spit, sputter, backfire? anything?
Does your diagram match this one? I can't make it out.

 

His is easier to read than yours
No they don't match, his is for early distributor with #1 jumped over 1 place

 

Nope, you.ve got it about right. Do what you've described, and it should start.

One other suggestion: Your diagram above shows the number one cap terminal pointing at the number 2 cylinder, like you stated earlier. For now forget about making the number one cap terminal be a specific terminal like that. If you've been swapping dizzys (or someone else before you has messed with it), and the oil pump driveshaft has been twisted out of position, the distributor might not drop into the engine correctly for that terminal to be number one.

It sounds like you know how to find TDC on the compression stroke of the number 1 cylinder. Once you do that, pull the dist cap, figure out which terminal the rotor is pointing at, and THAT terminal will be # 1. You may have to rotate the dizzy slightly to make sure the rotor is lining up exactly with a terminal. Then shift the remaining wires around the dist accordingly (keep the firing order correct).

Years ago a friend swapped dizzys on his beater, but he got the replacement in with the rotor point in the wrong spot. He was a better friend than mechanic... Rather than pull it all apart again, we just found tdc #1 comp stroke, pulled the cap & figured out which terminal the rotor was pointing at and called that the "new" number one. Re-wired the cap accordingly, and all was well.

 

That's an HEI with ESC. Electronic Spark Control
It's of no use without the control module. Here is a pic of one.

 

Ah ha I thought something looked fishy with the pic but have never messed with one with the seperate control.
Here's what you want it to look like.

 

You need the older style HEI with centrifigal and vacumn advance.
In a least two previous post you stated "it's only three wires".
An HEI requires only one wire. 12 volts to the battery terminal,that's it.
The original truck wiring used a resistance wire. It ran from the firewall connector to the R post on the starter soleniod, also on the R post was a dark green wire that ran to the + side of the coil. When the ignition switch was in the on position, 12 volts went to the resistance wire. the resistance wire then dropped the voltage to aprox. 9.5 volts at the R post on the solenoid.
9.5 volts then went back up the green wire to + post on the coil.
When the ignition switch is in the start position, 12 volts is sent to the S post on the solenoid which engages the starter and makes a connection which sends 12 volts to the R post on the solenoid and the green wire running to + post of the coil. If you have been using the original wire to supply the HEI you are not getting 12 volts to the dizzy.

 

For gawd sakes..
Shoulda shown us the picture a week ago.
I guess it will run that distributor ...with no spark advance whatsoever. Might have a couple degrees in the module...at 5000!
Did the HEI you borrowed look exactly like that one...with two plugs?
Get rid of that thing and get an early HEI with a vacuum advance canister.
That thing musta been a real powerhouse!

 

read every post...my head hurts

 

as much as you say you cranked it and no start by now that sucker could be flooded bad also. We used to get em in the shop in winter that people had flooded so bad you had to drain the oil it was full of gas! After you did that and changed plugs they would start. But t

 

Ready for this idea yet?

 

Ok guys. The purpose of the picture was the condenser.
I'm NOT giving up on the HEI.
Here's what I'm working with. Sorry for the confusion.

 

My other vehicle's engines. 1970, 302, and 1957,
318 Poly.
Probably took me 1/2 hour to get each of them running. Both with HEI dissys.

 

The best way to test an HEI is in your vice on the bench. Clamp it down by the shaft and pull the cover off of the coil. Connect a ground wire to the shaft, and a positive to the bat connector on the cap. Now this is the tricky part DO NOT PUT YOUR HAND ON TOP OF THE CAP, spin the gear at the bottom and you should have spark jumping from the terminals on the cap to the coil. When this happens you should be afraid it should snap and crack rather loudly. an HEI spark will jump an inch or more so be careful.

 

Pulled the plugs tonight, they were soaked, just as I suspected. And also drained the oil pan.

Tomorrow, I plan on changing the oil filter and setting it, again, at TDC. Regardless of where the rotor is pointing, that, or somewhere real close will be #1 on the cap.

I run my plugs at .055 in my other cars, and this could start a whole other thread but, is that the adequate gap? I've had some people tell me to run them according to what the engine calls for.

Art

 

True enough, Pooch.
This is kinda how we start a new project to break in the cam.
Before priming the oil pump, leave the distributor all hooked up and spin it by hand and see if everything is working..then prime it and fire it up. Saves a lot of heartache (and camshafts) later on.
But of course here RR Daddy has two HEI's that already work, and still a no start..So ????

 

Yes. I've seen HEIs fire plugs that had the ground strap completely burned off and the center electrode burned back an eighth of an inch.

 

You run the spark plugs and gap that match the ignition system, in this case hei. Imo Your 0.055 gap is a bit wide - I'd go with 0.045 myself and ac/delco r45ts plugs.

The factory started with a 0.060 gap, but they dialed it back.