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SBC in '50 Shoebox

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SloppyEggs, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

    SloppyEggs
    Member

    I just picked up a 327 for my shoebox, and I know that there are a few different swap kits for this and I'm probably going to end up with the one from www.Butchscoolstuff.com. I was wondering if anyone had pictures of their install. The website says that there is good clearance except for around the oil pan and center link, and recommends dropping the steering. They also say that it is "possible" to use a Chevy II oil pan. My question is, when they say that it is "possible" does that mean it will work or it may work? Hopefully you guys can give me a little insight.
     

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  2. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
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    Dang, no one?

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  3. studeboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2003
    Posts: 539

    studeboy
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  4. Pist-n-Broke
    Joined: Dec 4, 2003
    Posts: 3,490

    Pist-n-Broke
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    Any time you change mount points of steering your going to have an effect on what happens at the tires. Not sure if you can just modify the center of the cross link or not to get what you need. My choice would be the Chevy 11 pan that is shorter and raise the motor for the rest of needed space. Over the counter kits generally bring along several issues not related to that part of the project no matter what your doing. I went a different way in my 51, no kit.
    The Wizzard
     

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  5. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

    SloppyEggs
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    I ended up finding a good used Chevy II oil pan and pick-up tube locally. So hopefully that'll take care of the clearance issue with the steering. After doing a few searches, it looks like Butch's kit will work. I've decided to pass on the jamco kit because of the horror stories I've heard about their customer service. When I get everything I'll post some pics of the fitment.

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  6. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
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    SloppyEggs
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  7. 3CDFL
    Joined: Oct 29, 2007
    Posts: 8

    3CDFL
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    from TEXAS

    I used the speedway kit for sbc in my 51 and modified my steering by making a dropped Pitman arm and lowering idler arm level out the center link.

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  8. Pist-n-Broke
    Joined: Dec 4, 2003
    Posts: 3,490

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    I bet that's a Joy to drive.
     
  9. BRENT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 242

    BRENT
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    Which kit is this? Im looking at doing this right now with my 49 box right now and I did not see such a kit. I had to order the mount kit through Jamco that will bolt to the cross member. all they had was different motor mount styles but nothing that specifically for our shoebox's

    Rumour has it that if you use a small flywheel with I think 152 teeth it will clear the linkage. I also have a old dropped draglink sitting in the corner just in case. Seems to be a lot of mixed info out there about doing the swap.

    Also I think you need to use full size van headers to clear the steering box.
     
  10. Atomic Kustom
    Joined: Feb 5, 2010
    Posts: 104

    Atomic Kustom
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    Hay man just stop by and check mine out. I used a kit that Butch sells (made by Opies hot rod parts) Fits well I just used a regular pan and dropped the the pitman and idler arm. Should be around most of the day on Sunday!!!
     
  11. 3CDFL
    Joined: Oct 29, 2007
    Posts: 8

    3CDFL
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    from TEXAS

    It's in the drive train section of the catalog, has several options for motors and vehicles

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  12. 3CDFL
    Joined: Oct 29, 2007
    Posts: 8

    3CDFL
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    from TEXAS

    It drives fine, no noticeable change from stock

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  13. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 5,628

    Hnstray
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    from Quincy, IL


    The fact that you don't "notice" a change from stock is not the same as there being no change. You have changed (lowered) the inner pivot point of the outer tie rods and thereby changed the geometry of the system. That has to result in undesirable toe changes as the suspension moves up and down when driving.

    The long time commonly accepted correct method of dealing with this issue is to keep the stock location of the pitman and idler arms. The center link is "dropped", like a dropped axle, between the pitman and idler. That keeps all the tie rod geometry the same as stock while providing the needed pan clearance.
     
  14. 3CDFL
    Joined: Oct 29, 2007
    Posts: 8

    3CDFL
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    from TEXAS

    Guess I did it wrong then

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  15. BRENT
    Joined: Jun 22, 2005
    Posts: 242

    BRENT
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    Is there anybody making these dropped center links? I have a old one a friend let me borrow so that I can copy it. Just curious if anybody is making this linkage anymore?

    Brent
     
  16. Welp, here's what I did: First off, let me say my floor was badly rusted. I removed the floor's center hump because I knew my driveshaft would rub, as low as I wanted to go with the suspension.
    I dropped the 350/350 in place after I'd flipped my spindle supports. In doing that, I'd heated and bent my steering arms down to get the tie rods back down on a level plane with the pitman and idler......More on this in a minute.
    I used the original 49 ford 6 cylinder mount brackets welded to a couple pieces of scrap 2"X3" boxed tubing which was in turn, welded to my front crossemember. In the photos the ends of the tubing are still open. I closed them in before I put the front sheetmetal back on. The spacers allowed me to sit my engine above the stock 49 ford inner tie rod using the old 77 camaro oil pan. They cleared each other by 5/8ths inch.
    Yeah, I had to completely rebuild the floor including a new floor hump but I benefited by having much more oil pan/exhaust/tranny pan clearance. No problems clearing the stock steering box either.
    Back to the heated/bent steering arms: Doint that effectively shortened those steering arms, causing quicker steering. I suppose there may have been a little more force needed to make sharp turns afterward but face it...shubox fords have super slow steering from the factory. The short steering arms really speeded up the steering and after I bolted up a 1.25" trans am front stabilizer bar, the little coupe drove/steered/cornered like a corvette! And no bump steer with this setup.
     

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  17. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 3,000

    JeffB2
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    from Phoenix,AZ

    If you had done a "Ford in a Ford" 302/5.0 with a fox body oil pan with Butch's kit there would be zero alterations needed and you can even use Hedman 88400 headers,1949-50 Shoeboxes have a smaller trans tunnel than the 51's so a 302/C4 combo works in 49-50's the 51's can use an AOD.The dropped center links went away over 25 years ago so you will need to hand fab that be aware that Nova oil pans like this style http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-II-SB...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f2aba819d&vxp=mtr will give you less ground clearance bad news if the car is lowered,this is what you want:http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-II-SB...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f2aba819d&vxp=mtr be sure to order the matching pick up tube & screen.
     
  18. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

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    Too bad I already have a sbc. I also also have the ChevyII factory oil pan

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  19. Pist-n-Broke
    Joined: Dec 4, 2003
    Posts: 3,490

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    You would be correct, you just don't know it. Hnstray's explanation is spot on correct. Anything can be made to go in a strait line. Most Hot Rodder's don't know good driving and will most often sacrifice well handling for the ease of installing and looks.
    The Wizzard
     
  20. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

    SloppyEggs
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    Thanks for the info Rocky, and for the picture too

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  21. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

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    Wish I could make it out today, but unfortunately I'm a slave to my job today.

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  22. Atomic Kustom
    Joined: Feb 5, 2010
    Posts: 104

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    Stop by any time!
     
  23. happy hoppy
    Joined: Apr 23, 2001
    Posts: 2,304

    happy hoppy
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    I used the Nova, or Chevy II oil pan on my sbc install in my 50. I used Jamco's motor mounts, it was all a bolt in deal. The Draglink clears without modification. I had to raise the transmission hump to clear the 350 trany.

    In the last picture you can see the draglink and Nova oil pan.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  24. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

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    This is exactly what I needed. What exhaust manifolds did you use?

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  25. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 17,789

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    It looks like he used some style of ram horns. That's a pretty clean swap he did too.
     
  26. happy hoppy
    Joined: Apr 23, 2001
    Posts: 2,304

    happy hoppy
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    I used 1980's vintage , rear dump Camaro or Firebird.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  27. happy hoppy
    Joined: Apr 23, 2001
    Posts: 2,304

    happy hoppy
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    these manifolds have smog equipment you need to remove. I then closed the holes with brass plugs. I know there are aftermarket headers that will work, I chose to use OEM mainfolds because they don't leak, don't crack, cheap and work great.

    [​IMG]
     
  28. SloppyEggs
    Joined: Jan 10, 2012
    Posts: 198

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    Good stuff guys, thanks for all the input!

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  29. 3CDFL
    Joined: Oct 29, 2007
    Posts: 8

    3CDFL
    Member
    from TEXAS







    Thanks for the info, wasn't looking for the easy way out, was trying to do it best way I could, don't think the 3/4 of an inch I brought it down would have an extreme negative impact on the geometry, only have a few thousand miles on new setup, mostly local cruising and one long trip, haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, but will definitely be doing a much more in depth investigation, and will consider possibly changing it up to go back to stock location.



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  30. Pist-n-Broke
    Joined: Dec 4, 2003
    Posts: 3,490

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    F.Y.I. The issue called Bump Steer is what you created. The lower A Frame and the connecting link (tie rod) are designed to swing on the exact same arc. When this is changed the tire turns in and out while the up and down travel happens. Your tires will wear fast and odd and in more extreme cases will steer the car. Also on hard braking it will seem like the brakes are pulling.
    The Wizzard
     

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