Hey guys - I am a bit perplexed as to what's going on with my friend's Rambler. It's a 59 Rambler Rebel wagon with a 327 Rambler 'plant and the factory Holley 4 barrel carb. It was running bad and dying randomly when he got it , so I rebuilt the carb and got it all idling happy , but when you drop it into drive, the idle deteriorates quickly and it dies . When you restart it , all is well till you put it in drive , then it dies. If I jack up the idle too much , it slams into gear , which isn't good on things , and the idle deteriorates and dies , just as before . These things are supposed to idle at like 500 rpms , there's no way that's happening here. What the hell am I missing here ?? I'm not a rambler expert, but it isn't my first rodeo working on a Holley or a v-8 'plant ...
Wow that thing actually looks nice! Do you have vacuum advance hooked to manifold vacuum? In any case I would check with a timing light to see if and how much the timing retards between neutral and in gear. Also vacuum change.
Thanks for the quick replies , guys . My plan was sorta on line with the way you're thinking - to grab my timing light & check out what's going on . Since this car is a new purchase for Bob , it's a good thing to do anyways . The vacuum advance is still hooked to (what I imagine is) the original spot on the carb , hard-piped to the passenger side of the front fuel block behind the front bowl in front of the auto choke unit (you can see it in the engine pic) . As per your suggestions , I will see what happens to the vacuum also , as it's shifted from neutral to drive (if possible) . Some of my confusion comes from not being familiar with this car , and most importantly this push-button automatic trans . I have no idea whether it's a vacuum system that works it or some kind of electric or mechanically operated deal . Also , there may be switches (vacuum or not) that I don't realize are there (or malfunctioning ?) . Lots of unknowns to me , having never laid hands on an old Rambler . Any thoughts on THIS idea , anyone ?? Blowby - This old Rambler wagon IS super nice . I'd rock that sucker in a second ! I'm a longroof guy , and an odd car guy , so it would fit the bill for me also . Bob (and his wife) picked this car out to haul around the family's young dog (a Great Dane , IIRC - or something of that sort) . They wanted something out of the norm ... and they found it , LOL !! They got it late this past fall/early winter and haven't driven it since it came home . They're eager to drive it , to say the least . At least they have their '56 Chevy to drive to fill their old car jones till the Rambler is up to snuff . I really want to get the Rambler 100% for them soon , as I can imagine their excitement to drive their "new" car .
No idea if the trans is vacuum shifted. The experts are getting their beauty sleep, you should have better answers tomorrow. But I would get a vacuum gauge hooked to it. It looks like a PCV valve may have been added, might check that for vacuum leakage. Maybe spray something around the carb base and manifold areas to check for leaks there. Idle mixture screws have a good effect on idle and are about the usual 1-2 turns out and the same each side? I sometimes adjust my idle mixture with the car in gear (and car up against a wall). Also pop the distributor cap and check the mechanical advance. Old dead or broken springs will let it advance too soon.
Good eye - yup , it had a pcv valve added sometime in it's past . I'll check around there and around everywhere else I can think of (new carb gaskets under carb and under spacer) . Idle mixture screws are in fact somewhere between 1-2 turns out (set with vacuum gauge hooked to manifold to watch vacuum while setting) - equal both sides . Bob would have a fit if I put his Rambler up against a a wall though , LOL !!
I had a 56 Ford do this...didn't stall in reverse, just drive. After a whole morning of checking the usual suspects, it turned out to be the COIL!!!!!! Reverse didn't quite put the same load on it as drive, so it stayed running. A tiny bit more load, and the coil would die. Just something else to check if all else fails.
Gearshift is mechanical, cable actuated. There is a separate release lever for the Park position under the dash. Do not forget to release it before you take off. It is possible to damage the trans if you hit the gas too hard while in Drive and Park at the same time.
What are the switches behind the carb about? Especially the one with the bare wire ends twisted together? Check the wiring to the distributor and coil for any loose or flakey looking connections. Also look at any ground cables to the block, heads, bellhousing, frame, etc.. Putting the trans in gear may torque-rock the engine enough to make or break a connection somewhere. Might as well look at the engine mounts while you're at it.
I'm with ClayMart. GM had an approved "tug test" in their manuals years ago. You would activate the circuit, in this case, start the engine. Tug on any wire or connection you can find. No Need to get crazy with it. Just a tug. Surprising how many bad connections you can find this way. My second vote is to check the distributor. Example, point gap, is the breaker plate wore making it hang up, mechanical advance froze up. Good luck, keep us posted.
Thanks for the suggestions , guys. It looks like I will be goin' nuts checking and tugging everything in sight when I get back over there. I have got to figure this out . The switch behind the carb with the 2 wires on top appeared to be a vacuum switch of some sort - no idea what. The wires have spade terminals , BTW. Maybe I can figure out what it does till I get back over to Bob's joint. I'll see how much techie stuff I can rustle up too , like points gap & such. This should be fun.
Well , Bobby ordered a workshop manual for the ole Rambler (one of those new-fangled computer versions) , which should be here in the next few days. I'll have to study it a bit once it arrives. Hopefully it will shed some light on some stuff he was wants me to try to fix for him , as well as it's runability issues. Maybe at the end of all this we'll have a "ride in a Rambler" video to share .
Check the point mounting plate in the distributor, it may be worn and changing the point gap when the vacuum advance moves. You might have a vacuum leak, too. The transmission sounds like a Mopar Torqueflite with the lever-actuated Park and push-button shifter. American Motors never did build their own automatics as far as I know.
Woops, my bad! Looked it up in my books, the trans is a 4-speed GM Turbo-Hydro. That Rebel is the unsung fore-runner of the mid-size '60's supercar, a midsize car with a big V8. It was supposedly the fastest sedan available in its day, 0-60 in 7.5 seconds.
Well , I messed with the Rambler a bit tonight , but to no avail. It idles fine , revs up with no issues , but still , when you put it in gear out of park , it dies. I set the timing , looked at the breaker plate and points , checked for vacuum leaks , all seems well. I tried putting it in gear without the vacuum advance hooked up ... No difference. I just don't get it !! I watched the vacuum while we would try to put in drive , and it drops vacuum and dies. Any thoughts?? Bob's very patient , but I'm getting frustrated.
I'll reach a lil here...... does it have a vacuum modulator on the trans? Have'nt heard floats yet...... I'm going to say (worthless guess),but from my own experience,it's carb/or a timing issue. Wanna see how this play's out. When you resolve the issue,please post the solution. ;-)
What I would do is get it started, have someone squirt some carb cleaner or brake Cleaner down the carb as soon as it starts to die off. If is still craps out you likely have an ignition related issue. If it flares back up then it's a fuel related issue. My money is on fuel related. In not a Holley guy so I'll leave the speculation on the details to those much more experienced than myselfe.
I have no idea whether the trans has a modulator or not. Was wondering that myself. I need to look into that . The first thing I did was rebuild the carb with a nice, proper kit (i.e. not a generic Holley kit). The floats are set to stock height , BTW. The choke seems to be coming off a bit soon , but other than that, all seems well there. If it were mine , I would have a manual choke installed , but that's just me being neurotic , lol . I did manage to "catch" the idle a couple times when Bob put it in gear by working the carb under the hood. It wasn't easy, but I did. Weird thing is , while it's crapping out , I crank up the idle screw and it seems to do nothing. When we refire the engine , it's idling fast, like you would expect.
How much vacuum is it pulling? One thing occurs to me, perhaps when you put it in drive the load causes a lean condition. Try richening up the idle mixture and see if that changes anything.
It is pulling between 10 to 15 inches of vacuum depending on settings. When you put it in gear , it's like you open a valve and let the vacuum out. It just drops quickly and dies.
Maybe get the back wheels off the ground. It should idle in drive that way with the wheels spinning. If not you must have trans/vacuum problems. Gradually apply the brakes and see what happens.
My 1961 Motor's Manual shows that that should have something called a Flashomatic transmission in it. There is a vacuum diaphragm on the transmission somewhere. Not a lot of information about it. Hopefully your shop manual will show more.
You should have more like 16 to 19 inches of vacuum at idle in neutral. Putting it in gear should drop it an inch or two. If it's only pulling 10 inches at idle putting it in gear might drop it low enough for the power valves to open, richen it up too much and choke it out. Power valve may also be failing or leaking... did you put in new one when rebuilding the carb? Try putting in a little more initial timing to bring the idle vacuum up and see if it acts differently.
Thanks for the input , ClayMart. My friend Ryan (of the Aces & Eights cc) came over to help me out a bit , so we could keep the car running long enough to try to diagnose the problem. We did put more timing into it , and it did make things better , but not fixed. Then we started looking at other stuff. We ended up looking closer at the pcv valve system someone added in somewhere along the line. They put a pcv valve from a vacuum port in the intake into where the front breather was (coming out of the intake) . The grommet was pretty beat , making us suspect things. Funny thing is , there was also a road draft tube. We messed with things a bit , and long story short , eliminated the pcv valve , plugged the vacuum port that it ran out of , and it ran fine. Go figure ! Bob and I drove the Rambler around , laughing like kids every time we came to a stop and it kept running. We were very happy. So far she's doing OK. Now we noticed his brake master cylinder is leaking . I'll be pulling that this weekend for rebuilding. Poor Bob - if it isn't one thing , it's another ...
Well, that's the way it goes with old cars, especially if they sat a while. The 59 Rambler uses a Borg-Warner auto trans, not a four speed Hydro. AMC used the Hydro up until 1956 though. Don't know what the vacuum switch is for, but there should be a switch somewhere on the throttle linkage for the trans kick-down circuit -- it uses a solenoid for kick-down. I'm more familiar with the AMC sixes of that era, the factory repair manual may reveal that the kick-down was vacuum operated... I have a factory manual, but not on hand right now.
Over the years they used the GM Hydramatic, the Packard Ultramatic (behind Packard sourced V8s) the Borg Warner T35 and finally Chrysler Torqueflite. Hope I didn't leave any out.
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