Technical Question on 327 motor and 4 speed Muncie for c20 truck

Hi All,

I have a quick question, I'm looking for a 63-66 C-10 or C-20 truck (like I need more potential car problems) to just mess around in occasionally to take kayaks, surfboards, etc places and not go too far and not care if it gets beat up.

I'm hoping to not spend more than $5500 to $6k.

I found a green 1964 C-20 with a 350 motor and 350 trans for $6k. It had some nice power and the owner drove it with me in the passenger seat and pushed it nicely up hills. The problem is it has rust holes on the cab on the roof above the window so I decided it's probably not a good idea.



I found another red 64 C-20 for $6k with a 327 motor and a 4 speed muncie. This one doesn't have significant rust and it has a big window which I like but it felt sluggish when the owner drove it especially compared to the green tuck. Is a 327 motor and a 4 speed muncie a decent setup for a c20, perhaps the owner didn't push it hard enough or maybe it needs a tune up? The transmission looked filthy from the outside and it has a small oil leak likely from the rear main seal. I like the power of the green truck because I live around steep hills.



Otherwise I'll be patient and keep looking around. Thanks!

 

difference could be just the rear axle ratios.

If the green one has stock rear end, it would be 3.70 and with an A/T, it would really feel peppy on hills.

If the red one has a newer rear with a highway gear with 3.07 or lower number, and if the Muncie has a first gear that is the lower numerical option, it sure would feel less peppy.



Which one revved more at 60 mph? that would give a clue to the ratios being very different

.

 

IMHO that 327 should be no puppy...and will keep up with a stock 350 very well.
I would suggest checking out the 327 more thoroughly to see what it really is......
Good Luck,

 

As F&J pointed out, there are a lot of variables besides cubic inch size of the engine. 327ci should be able to motor that truck around just fine, depending on the state of tune, gearing, etc.

 

Thanks that is good to know the engine is sufficient if tuned and running properly. I believe the red truck and the Green one both have stock rear ends.

 

Thanks!
I believe they both have stock rear ends.

The green truck was loud on the highway so probably high rpms although it felt peppy for sure up hills.

The red truck was sluggish and the owner said 1st gear is rather useless and it goes on the highway and tops out around 65 ish. We only drove on quiet streets so I don't know what that means.

I like the idea of more power and acceleration to make up for occasional late decisions to turn onto lanes etc and because of steep hills but a manual transmission seems like it could be fun for a truck. Hmmm

 

I always prefer to buy the best body vs. the best power train, because it's easier for me to fix/change parts than to fix serious rust issues. Sounds like the red truck needs a good tune up. And maybe some better gears. It may have been an automatic in it's first life. Are the 4-speeds in question "granny gear" truck 4 speeds, or automotive/m-12, m-22 (you wish), Saginaw units found in cars?

 

I've had a bunch of C20 and C30 trucks with the big 4-speeds in them, the SM420 with the low low 1st gear. Those were ideal for me. Those had a 3.73 to 5.38 rears in them.

You really have to consider the 1st gear ratio and the rear end ratio. A 2.20 1st gear with a 3.23 rear can be a real dog on take off. The wide ratio M20 boxes (I have one in my Ford) has a 2.52 or 2.56 1st gear. My rear is a 3.70 so it scoots pretty well. At 70 I'm turning 3000 RPMs.

Another thing, any C20 or C30 I had didn't have a transmission cross member. The bell housing mounted to the chassis as well. So any automatic, Saginaw or Muncie manual should use one. Not a big chore on a Chevy truck.

 

Changing engines,transmissions, and rear axels is a lot easier, than fixing rust. Especially if the rust is up in the roof.

It sounds like mice had their nests up in the roof of the green 64. This is what happened with my 59 GMC. The inner roof was completely rusted out across the top of the windshield, and above both door openings. The front windshield posts had some rot in them, too. It was a Texas truck, so the rest of it was extremely solid.

Attached are a few photos of what it took to fix it's roof. The outer roof skin had to be removed. The entire inner structure was replaced. Then the outer skin was welded back on.

 

This could be a problem!
If it tops out at 65 -
it should also run like a two peckered Billy goat up to 65. Feel like it has enough power to pull a house off its foundation.

 

Wow that puts things into perspective about finding out with a better body vs the peppier engine/trans and rear end combo.

 

Yea ill ask the owner and maybe drive it on the highway to feel it out more. I was just going by what she said on it topping out at 65 ish but maybe she means the rpms start to get high then.

 

Yes, it does. My GMC was so solid that both the steps and above the headlights had zero rust in them. However, mice had gotten up into the roof and did what mice do.....

As a contrast, the replacement inner roof came out of an Iowa farm truck, ( 56 GMC 2 ton grain truck) that was rusted to pieces. However, mice did not get into the roof, so it was still good and solid.

 

6k for a 3/4 ton? man, what's the world coming to....

Check out the drivetrain more carefully, you might get better help. If it has the original rear with the removable center section then it's gonna be steeper gearing than 3.70, more likely 4.56. The half tons came with 3.73 most often, the 3/4 had more gear.

Also check the transmission, let us know if it's a Muncie car transmission with the shifter behind the trans (M20-M22), or a Muncie truck transmission with the shifter in the middle of the trans (SM420). Big difference in gear ratios, how fast you can shift them, etc.

 

Buy them both and swap the power-train of the green one into the red one! Seriously, I like the look of the green truck better; the red truck looks somewhat "amateurish", but it's hard to really tell in just a couple of pics. It's too bad GM made these trucks with the inner/outer steel roofs that collected condensation, dirt, and vermin; it all leads to rust. I'd say keep looking for another truck. I'm in on the rear end gearing being the biggest factor at this point.
I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Why aren't you driving these trucks rather than the owners, they got something to hide or you can't drive a stick?

 

I can't drive a stick which is kind of why I want that red one so I can learn.

 

If you live in a hilly region, you're gonna go backwards before you go forward and if you have the kind of traffic that I've heard about in California, then driving a stick everyday will get old real quick!

 

Whatever you do, if you decide on the one with the 350/350, make sure there's no 'whistle' coming to a stop!
Did you ever get that noise cured in your beautiful custom Chevy?

 

Yea I know. I haven't gotten rid of the noise yet.

I want a truck I don't have to do anything to for a while mainly because I have limited time and want the 53 Chevy to be issue free eventually.

I mostly want the truck to drive through back roads and to the beach and not for far highway driving. I expect to use highways very little despite being in San Diego.

 

The reason I want a truck even more so is that my roommate (who I'm in a complicated and interesting relationship with) says it would be fun and she wants to lay in the back under the stars and do "stuff" back there.

She looks good in front of the 53' and probably better in the bed of a truck with me in it

 

An 8 foot bed that never needs to be made!

 

Here's another photo of the red truck I saw. Paint is a bit faded on the hood and roof and hard to see in the photo. It's a rear big window cab.

 

Its fun to do "stuff" in the back of a truck. We go backyard camping all summer.
You're not going to do much more than 65 on the freeway no matter what.
I have a 67 F-250 with a Cleveland, and 65 is about tops, it can get there real quick though.
6K,,,,,GADZOOKS that would have to be an awesome truck.

 

Thanks the person is firm on price but I was considering offering $5500 and waiting until the seller wants to accept. She said she wasn't in a rush to sell it and it's been on Craig's for a month solid.

 

Despite your successful attempt to distract us, I remember something about the OP.
Never have seen a Muncie that didn't have porosity issues. They ''seep'' gear oil. Also, th 1st gear isn't very low, 2.20 or 2.53 at best. The M21/22 close ratio boxes are intended to be a road race box. Not a bad thing, but something folks with the heavier vehicles would want to keep in mind.

 

I'm still trying to find out what type of Muncie but it has the original rear end and I saw two driveshafts and the crossmember. The trans was really filthy on the outside.

 

Simple: If it had a shorter shifter like a Hurst or other chromed one.....or did it have a painted, somewhat tall and "2 bend" shifter?

First one would be a car type/muscle car Muncie.

second one would be the truck trans with non-drivable first gear used when off road-ing

 

It had the taller shifter and the owner said 1st gear is rather useless.

 

That's the truck transmission with a granny low.

Another thing to consider is that not many C20s were built with 327s. I think 66, or maybe 65 was the first year it was available in a pickup.

Many 283s magically become 327s when it's time to sell.

Of course, many powertrain changes potentially happen over a fifty year time period.