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painting tech guide

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ems customer service, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. this is a painting tech we wrote to help caller with questions, i think th efirst post of this got blurred in the upload, its just a rule of thumb guide not the last word, anyways it just for fyi to hambers
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    Paint Procedures for New and Used Parts:

    The engineers at EMS Automotive are always concerned about proper installation and greater customer satisfaction. For many years our customer service counter has fielded questions about paint procedures. Well, we are not painters and know little about painting cars. But, as engineers we can and do know how to consult with other companies on technical subjects.
    We went to all the major automotive paint companies for technical answers to the questions on painting. These were your questions to our customer service reps. You have seen their big displays at all the major car shows. The EMS Automotive engineers had extended conversations with the big paint companies telling them the concern we have for our customers. Their response was shocking. Practically, all of them did not care about the ultimate customer, except for one, The Sherwin-Williams Company.
    The Sherwin-Williams Automotive Paint Company provided the following overview of the proper paint procedure for the listed base materials. Each base material will require it's own preparation procedure. These procedures are not the last word or a cast-in-concrete listing of all procedures and available paint products, but it is intended as an overview so you, the car owner, can speak with some knowledge to the paint salesmen or your body shop painter.
    The idea behind this topic is just to help out the collector car owner get the best paint job with out being ripped off by a "sell only what we got" salesman or "I have not updated my procedures in 20 years" painter.
    To locate your local Sherwin-Williams Automotive Finishes paint store call: 1-800-SW-ULTRA (1-800-798-5872)

    FYI: Believe it or not the Sherwin-Williams Paint Company did not pay a fee for this space, they just have a genuine concern for the car owner that the other paint companies refused to provide.

    Paint Procedure for New Metal:

    step: 1 Test for primer solubility, apply lacquer thinner to primer. If primer softens, remove the factory primer from adjacent parts.
    step: 2 Clean new parts with Sherwin-Williams SC155, SC156 or SC158 Surface Cleaner.
    step: 3 Scuff sand adjacent areas with gray nylon scuff pad and SW Cleaners 155, 156 or 158.
    step: 4 After sanding reclean entire area to be painted with Sherwin-Williams Cleaner SC155, 156 or 158 Surface Cleaner and a new clean cloth.
    step: 5 Apply Sherwin-Williams P30 Spectra Seal or S56, S57 or S58 Ultra Shade Sealers, or S65 Basecoat transparent Adhesion Promoter, or Ultra High Fill HS Primer or P23 Ultra Shade Low V.O.C. Sealer. Follow mixing instructions closely.
    step: 6 Apply basecoat Sherwin-Williams Ultra 7000 mixed 1:1 with RHF Base Coat Stabilizer or Base Coat BSC65-95 series with 16:1 UH904 Hardener.
    step: 7 Apply any Sherwin-Williams 900 series Clearcoat closely following all mixing and application instructions.

    Paint Procedure for Aluminum Parts:

    step: 1 Test for primer solubility, apply lacquer thinner to primer. If primer softens, remove the factory primer from adjacent parts, or re-prime the complete panel.
    step: 2 All body work must be finished with 180 grit sandpaper.
    step: 3 For repair work, feather edge repair area with 220 grit sandpaper followed by 320 grit then 400 grit. Do not mix sandpaper with aluminum and steel repair, contamination of surface will result.
    step: 4 Start bare aluminum with Sherwin-Williams E2G970 Etching Primer. This step may be skipped if using SW NP75 Primer Surfacer.
    step: 5 Apply Sherwin-Williams Spectra Prime P30, NP75 Ultra-Fill HS Primer or NP2100 Low V.O.C. Primer. Make sure that primer does not extend past the 400 grit sanding area.
    step: 6 Allow to air dry or short wave infrared heat as per primer directions. After curing, apply a dry guide coat before block sanding (3M05861).
    step: 7 Block sand with 400 grit and reapply guide coat.
    step: 8 Block sand with 600 grit.
    step: 9 Apply (any color) Ultra 7000 Base Coat.

    Paint Procedure for Repaired Steel Metal Part Refinishing:

    step: 1 Test for primer solubility, apply lacquer thinner to primer. If primer softens, remove the factory primer from adjacent parts, or re-prime the complete panel.
    step: 2 All body work must be finished with 220 grit sandpaper.
    step: 3 For repair work, feather edge repair area with 220 grit sandpaper followed by 320 grit then 400 grit. Do not mix sandpaper with aluminum and steel repair, contamination of surface will result.
    step: 4 Start bare aluminum with Sherwin-Williams E2G970 Etching Primer. This step may be skipped if using SW NP75 Primer Surfacer.
    step: 5 Apply Sherwin-Williams Spectra Prime P30, NP75 Ultra-Fill HS Primer or NP2100 Low V.O.C. Primer. Make sure that primer does not extend past the 400 grit sanding area.
    step: 6 Allow to air dry or short wave infrared heat as per primer directions. After curing, apply a dry guide coat before block sanding (3M05861)
    step: 7 Block sand with 400 grit and reapply guide coat.
    step: 8 Block sand with 600 grit.
    step: 9 Apply Ultra 7000 Base Coat.

    Paint Procedure for SMC or Fiberglass New Parts:

    step: 1 Wash parts with soap and water, pH neutral soap is best.
    step: 2 Rinse well and let dry.
    step: 3 Solvent clean with Sherwin-Williams SC156.
    step: 4 Rinse with de-ionized water and let dry.
    step: 5 Sand 400, 500, 600 grit sand paper or 220, 240, 320 fleet on random orbital sander.
    step: 6 Clean panel with Sherwin-Williams SC159 Cleaner.
    step: 7 Tack wipe.
    step: 8 Apply Primer Sealer (P30 Spectra Seal).
    step: 9 Apply Ultra 7000 Base Coat, follow with any 900 series Ultra 7000 Clear Coat.
    note: Do not clean parts with lacquer thinner and avoid over saturation with other cleaner products, be careful not to sand away details in soft plastic parts.

    Paint Procedure for Carbon Fiber New Parts:

    step: 1 Sand panel with 320 or 400 grit sand paper.
    step: 2 Clean with compressed air (wear safety glasses!!).
    step: 3 Solvent clean with Sherwin-Williams SC158 or SC159 Cleaner.
    step: 4 Apply 3-4 coats of Sherwin-Williams P30 Primer Surfacer mixed with 4:1 with Sherwin-Williams AS9 Reducer and H38 Hardener.
    step: 5 Allow to dry 45 minutes minimum.
    step: 6 Sand with 400-600 grit, re-prime if needed (2 mils of primer thickness required for carbon fiber).
    step: 7 Apply Sherwin-Williams Ultra 7000 Basecoat mixed 1:1 with RHF series Basecoat Stabilizer or BCS65-95 series mixed 16:1 with UH904 Hardener.
    step: 8 Apply Sherwin-Williams 900 series Clearcoat following all mixing and application instructions.

    Paint Procedure for Unprimed Plastic Parts:

    step: 1 Scrub all surfaces front and back with Sherwin-Williams SC155 Low V.O.C. Cleaner and a gold nylon pad to remove any soluble mold release agents. Rinse and wipe dry. Scrub again with Sherwin-Williams SC159 Plastic Parts Cleaner/Antistatic Agent, and a gold nylon scuff pad to remove any solvent based mold agents. Note: you must do both cleaning operations!!
    step: 2 Preform a sanding test on back side of part, using 600 grit sandpaper. Sand a small area, if the part is powdery, proceed to step 2A. If the part loads up or is gummy proceed to step 3.
    step: 2A Gray scuff pad with Sherwin-Williams USP90 Liquid Scuffing Gel, paying close attention to the fine details of the plastic parts. Rinse off part with water, dry very good. Proceed to step 4.
    step: 3 Scuff with a gold nylon pad and with Sherwin-Williams USP90 Liquid Scuffing Gel, paying close attention to the fine details of the plastic parts. Rinse off part with water, dry very good. Proceed to step 4.
    step: 4 Clean plastic part again with Sherwin-Williams SC159 Plastic Parts Cleaner and a gold scuff pad. Dry excess material and reapply with clean cloth SC159 Plastic Parts Cleaner/Static Remover. Wipe part dry.
    step: 5 Tack part with clean tack cloth. Apply 1 medium coat of Sherwin-Williams UP07226 Clear or UP07227 Gray Plastic Adhesion Promoter to bare plastic. Wait 10 minutes to flash dry.
    step: 6 Apply Sherwin-Williams Ultra 7000 Basecoat mixed 1:1 with RHF series Basecoat Stabilizer or BCS65-95 series mixed 16:1 with UH904 Hardener.
    step: 7 Apply Sherwin-Williams 900 series Clearcoat following all mixing and application instructions. A flex agent is not required for hard plastic parts. Use Sherwin-Williams Flex Agent for plastic parts that are flexible.
     
  2. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 11,611

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Thanks! Very informative and straight forward. I'll be getting my body this Xmas and this just may get me to try painting it myself. Thanks again.
     
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  4. TagMan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 4,561

    TagMan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Damn - another thread I missed first time around !! Thanks for bringing it back again. It not only hi-lights S-W's customer service, but also EMS's concern with their customer's ultimate satisfation.
     
  5. 56Sedan
    Joined: Feb 4, 2008
    Posts: 203

    56Sedan
    Member

    Looks very good, I might add I've used quite a bit of Sherwin-Williams automotive paint and it is good stuff.
    Altho the procedure listed could be used with any automotive paint line/brands
     
  6. leon renaud
    Joined: Nov 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,936

    leon renaud
    Member
    from N.E. Ct.

    This needs a spot in the Tech Archives
     
  7. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    bump time. i called ems and got the look at our websight about paint, this is after i asked what kind of etching primer do you guys recommend. not one person there had an answer.

    the main reason i called is because i figured you guys would have an answer for guys like me. yes i have family that owns a body shop but they told me, " ask them they may have a brand of etching primer they recommend?" they told me the paint is going to fall off those patch panels. most panels they deal with is just per-primed dealer panels.

    now my last question for anyone here, how do you remove the coating, acid? what brand? and how do i apply it?
    they have been welded to the car already, doing a ton of body work to it, so its in bare metal. any help would be great, thanks guys!
     
  8. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    come one guys and gals, has to be someone on this board who can answer this question? i did a search and found nothing?
     
  9. sorry you feel diss'd but i was there when you called, the answer did not come to mind immedialtly, but i did know that sherwin williams helped with our "paint info" page on our web site. And that there was more paint info on the site.

    I am not a painter .

    Do not try to remove the anti rust coating on ems panels, it is nearly impossable to do so as it is applied and blends into the base metal. It is preperation that makes the paint sitck

    which is why we did this paint guide with sw.
     
  10. stev8
    Joined: Jun 22, 2007
    Posts: 85

    stev8
    Member

    Ok, dont quite follow your question, but, if the panels already have a factory primer on them and you want to remove it, I would simply sand it off. Its only on coat, and with a DA sander it wont take long.

    Modern factory primers on new panels I wouldnt remove as their factory paint process is far better than ours could ever be, but if you are talking about patch panels on your old car, I would certainly remove the paint. Who knows whats under there!!

    I prefer acid etch primers, but you cant really put epoxy etch primers over top, so if you are going to bog, I would use a epoxy primer that is recomended for bog to go over.

    I dont know the brands you have over there, but, personally I would stick to the big name brands, mainly because there products have had all the testing etcbefore they sell them.

    And dont always buy the cheapest, sometimes they will cost you far more if the product is no good!!
     
  11. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    no they come just galvanized, no primer no nothing. i did try to prep them but it started flaking off. so i know it has to do with the galvy coating they do. but im sure some one here has a trick to keep it from flaking off.
     
  12. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    i didnt feel dissed i just think you guys should not galvy coat them, yes i know it helps protect them when you guys ship them overseas, but just having them etch prime would protect them just as well no?

     
  13. Willy301
    Joined: Nov 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,426

    Willy301
    Member

    While I appreciate SW's obvious concern for the end consumer. You might also mention that PPG and Dupont are clearly marked for professional use only.. And I know for a fact that PPG will give a fact sheet about a particular product if you buy want it. With being listed as such, they probably go under the assumption that their dealer is being more vigilant about sales of the products to the end consumer....Just saying, you paint them in a pretty poor light, when they are fulfilling their requirements. I have not purchased SW before, so not aware of their labeling...
     
  14. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    willy sw is a cheap line of water based paints right, not that thats bad but my car is not getting sw paint on it. what can i do? some one here know how to prep galvanized patch panels?
     
  15. Willy301
    Joined: Nov 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,426

    Willy301
    Member

    BC, the only thing I can say is that you already know the answer. The galv needs to come off. Electrolysis is probably the best way to do that, but I think you would need more specific info to do that safely and effectively. I have also heard of guys soaking panels in vinegar to get galv off, haven't tried it myself, so I can not be of much help on that either. I have personally just sanded it of. It is not easy or quick, but with the right sandpaper, and enough determination, it can be done. Wear an N-95 rated dust mask or a respirator, as galv is usually a zinc based coating and is very bad for your lungs....
     
  16. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    ^ this i do know 80 grit da for how long? or will that eat all the metal up? im no body guy, but i know a little.
     
  17. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    any other painters have advise on this?
     
  18. it is not galvanized!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not treat it a such or you will have problems.

    If you had this concern you should have this question in the beginning.
     
  19. You have gotten the best information from the tech dept at sherwin williams, ( the only paint company that would help rodders)

    for ems panels use the section that says new metal

    for metal from the 30's 40's 50's used the section repaired metal.

    If you read carefully each base material needs to be prep'd differently stell old or new fiberglass, composite etc,

    yes you will prep each part of the car a bit different as they would have diff base materials
     
  20. again guys!!!!!!!!!!

    ems does not use galvanized zinc coatings on its parts.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    it is a double side rust resistant coating it is not a zinc based product!!!!!!!!!!!

    prep it like a 2011 car and the paint will stick, degrease it good we use lots of oil in prodcution. you can use steel wool to rough it up before the primer non etching!!


    it is not a galvanized coating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  21. VonDad
    Joined: Apr 17, 2001
    Posts: 229

    VonDad
    Member

    If its not galvanized then make sure you don't treat it as such. Bad ju ju will entail.

    Worked for an old sign painter and he would buy galvanized panels for signs. To prep them we would use vinegar straight on a rag and wipe it down good. It pickled the galvanize some way and sw bulletin paint would stick to it. Without the vinegar. It'd peel every time.

    Dunno why it worked it just did. Weird I know, but I just remembered what we would do.

    Pickle steel and it'll act goofy when you try to apply paint. Hope it helps.

    VonDad
     
  22. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,943

    big creep
    Member

    so no etching primer on the ems panels, just regular primer.
     
  23. exit64
    Joined: Jan 8, 2012
    Posts: 79

    exit64
    Member
    from suffolk ny

    What color are the parts? If black then it's probably some form of epoxy. If it comes off with thinner then it should come off as it could react with any coating on top.

    As far as the OP's post, I think that sherwin Williams did a great job of spelling out what a novice doing it at home type of guy(read 90% of hambers) should do.

    To whoever posted sw is cheap water based :
    All major paint companies offer waterbase paints, most are more expensive than solvent based paints, it doesn't mean it's better or worse.Definitely safer to use at home( EPA doesn't like you spraying large ammts of voc's into the air in a residential setting) Just the way of the future. When was the last time you painted your living room with oil?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  24. overspray
    Joined: Jan 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,211

    overspray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here are some threads with more threads linked that you can read. You will have more questions, so make a list and we'll try fill in the answers.

    A lot of replacement patch panels are cold rolled steel and are not phosphated like most OEM/factory panels. Cold rolled steel would need some sort of phosphate coating or an etch primer to have better corrosion protection.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658293

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610011

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=553217

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433769
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012

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