Any idea why this happened? Kirker hot rod black shot with turbine hvlp, 80 degrees outside used slowest reducer and hardner with 1.4 tip at 3 to 1 to 1. This was 2 coats of paint. I used lots of wax and greese remover before shooting, no silicone products used in the shop for a month before shooting. Thanks.
Excellent question. It's hard to tell from a pic that looks like a pail of worms, but my best guess is that you have 2 heavy coats of paint trying to dry over a primer or sealer that is noncompatible with the hardener in your paint.
Dont know, truck was flat black when I got it, just scratched up. I used 180 grit, 2k primer surfacer, 320 and shot. The back of it came out ok, but was shot about 2 weeks before in same outside temps. I used advantage 312 primer surfacer and hardner then the kirker paint and kirker hardner.
Did you re-use any of the paint you mixed 2 weeks ago? And is it wrinkling all over, or just where you sanded through the primer?
From the photo it looks like a Hammertone effect like you see on toolboxes. When you say you use lots of wax and grease remover, do you give it a good wipe down and remove the solvent. Don't laugh, I've seen people wipe on wax and grease and then spray straight over it with disastrous results. Second guess would be that something in the mix wasn't compatible or the paint wasn't compatible with the primer. The other cause could be even though it was 8o degrees outside did the panel feel warm to the touch before spraying?
Did you use the correct activator & reducer? HRP UR-8095 reducer UA-1600S - High temp (Above 80) activator
If you used the hardener you use two weeks prior, that may be your problem, once you open the hardener, it has a limited shelf life!
Was it sitting outside in the sun and got rolled into the shop and painted right away? If you used the same products both times and one came out well and one didn't it sounds more like an application error or mixing error than a compatibility or product failure. Turbines add a ton of heat to the air when spraying so any additional heat to the paint area could easily cause the paint to dry way before it had time to flow out. Looks like a case of major orange peel.
I once saw something like this happen years ago. (not saying this is what happened to you), but the wrong chemical was mixed in the paint by accident, instead of the proper hardener. I've been painting for 30 years, and usually its a painter mistake rather than a product problem. ( I have seen product problems, but rarely.) I have even made a few. I'd take and spay a test panel and see if it does it again.
what did you wipe it down with? I made the mistake of using acrylic enamel reducer one time with results that looked like that. wax and grease remover MIGHT due that too. I now use straight fast dry enamel reducer with good results. jim
The door and nose completly wrinkled. I used the wax remover and wiped it down the night before then tacked it off before shooting. Mixed new batch of paint but it was the hardner I opened when I shot the bed, used the above 80 degree hardner. If I used a little too much hardner (not sure if i did or not) would that cause it to dry before it had time to flow seeing how the turbine heats the hose and gun? Would it look like that if thats what happened? I have it sanded back down ready to reshoot, just trying to figure out what happend first.
looks like you hammered that first coat on way to wet or you have a contamination problem. did you dry the wax and grease remover off, doing only a panel at a time? sanded paint or primer will soak that stuff up like a sponge and reek havoc on paint job. did it ball up when you resanded it? 320 is a little too aggressive for final paint without a sealer, , finish it with 500. i would scratch an area with my finger nail to make sure that paint adhered to the primer before i went any further. that will tell if you left a film of cleaning solvent on the car. once you got it figured out, try dusting a tack coat on it and then a medium wet coat followed by a final wet coat allowing flash time between each coat.
Enough dancing around...who cares what caused it, it could be 100 different things. Bottom line is you need to repaint the car. There is alot of chemistry involved in shooting paint. It isn't in everybody's blood. Better luck next time...
Sure looks like something wasn't compatible. Never seen that pattern on operator error alone. OTOH, if you could do something like that on purpose, it's a pretty cool hammertone.
Yes- sort of. Sometimes when you believe that you've done everything correct and in your heart you know you didnt cut any corners and would do everything the same; its really nice to know what went wrong. Without knowing what happened and doing everything the same again and expecting something different fits exactly with the best definition of insanity. Makes you gunshy about lightening the wallet and investing more time. Without the "oh shit, that's what happened " smoking gun. And you still need to repaint it.
I think K13 is pretty close on the diagnosis. If you haven't used a turbine system, it's hard to understand how much extra heat is produced when spraying. The extra heat from the turbine system together with the outside air temp and the car sitting in the sun may start the hardner to "kick" much sooner when the first coat of paint is sprayed, then the partially catalyzed first coat film will wrinkle when the second coat is applied. If you waited a moderate to long amount of time between coats, the first coat will be in the curing stage and be sensitive to solvents. Try to use these turbine systems at a cooler temperature when spraying catalyzed material. Isocyanate hardners cure with heat, slow or not at all below 64 degrees, and faster as you get above 75-80 degrees. A car sitting in the sun at 80 degrees could easily have a surface temp above 90 degrees. 90 degrees surface/metal temp plus heat from the turbine could bring everything over 100 degrees drastically effecting the hardner cure time. overspray
Two things come to mind, one is that your paint is reacting to what you shot it over, always good to use a good sealer first if you don't know what your base is. The second is that you may have recoated too soon. It could still lay down some once it gasses out. Who remembers wrinkle paint, if you wanted it to wrinkle really well you recoated just before the first coat flashed and layed it on thick.
I used advantage 190 wax & grease remover but now I wonder if I did wipe it off good enough. The truck was not in the sun for at least a week before shooting. I still think it might be the heat from the turbine and my lack of experience . I guess I'll wait till it cools off outside to reshoot it. Thanks for all the replies, I guess I'll never know what I did wrong just was hoping not to make the same mistake again. I'll update when I reshoot.
make sure to use a good sealer the next time, every time i had anyproblems it was lack of sealer i could attribute it to. so now sand seal and paint away ! good luck
It could also be as simple as gun technique or the settings on your gun. Fuji recommends leaving your air flow wide open on their site so you ensure you get proper atomization. Did you change any of your gun settings from one session to the next?
I bet thats where my problem is. Turbines arnt supposed to put out much overspray but when I did my first paint job overspray was everywhere,lots of it. I turned down my material flow this time and got no overspray. I had it turned down when I did the bed but had a hard time with it . Probably had it turned down even more on the nose and door. 'll turn it back up and do a test panel before I try again on the truck.
Hope it works out for you. I don't know a lot about turbines but when I googled orange peel causes Fuji's site came up and that was their number one recommendation. Good luck!
I've had a similar finish occur when, like beaner said, I put down a second coat too soon and completely rumpled that sucker.
A few better pics would help. First off, I would never recommend painting black outside at 80F. The surface of that truck was likely 110-130F and the paint would never have had a chance to flow, among other heat related problems. Regarding the comments about catalyst going bad after opening, I would tend to disagree. As long as the catalyst was capped well and hadn't crystallized in the can, it should be good for a relatively long length of time. More pics that are clearer and have a penny or something in the photo to reference size?? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Thats the only pic I have. I sanded it back down and just thought to take one right before I finished. Like mentioned I'm going to wait till its cooler outside, wait longer between coats, turn up my flow adjustment and pray for the best as I really dont want to sand this again.
If the only thing that you changed from the first time when it worked to the second time were the settings on your gun I would have to think that it is a 99% chance that's what went wrong.
I like it, figure out how to do the entire truck like that. The hell with suede, that pattern looks like leather.
The Jalopy Journal
