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Projects Only 15 First Hot Rod Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by v8juice, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    For cheap heat that's better than blue gas but not as hot (or expensive) as an OA rig, the yellow bottle MAP gas with the piezo torch at any big box hardware store is very handy for about $60.
     
  2. Small Acetylene tank and plumbers torch. Most heat for least bucks.
     
  3. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    So after making some new body mounts I decided to start making mounts for the engine. Here is where the engine is now. If I want to move it any lower or farther back I'll need to remove the s10 crossmember and make my own. What do you guys think? ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415219596.129496.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415219617.064731.jpg I don't want to do this a third time so any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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  4. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Well does everything line up right and have the correct angles to it?

    Where's the radiator going?
     
  5. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    Looks like I'm going to be making a crossmember the radiator won't clear the steering box unless the engine is moved back about 4"


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  6. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

  7. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,305

    missysdad1
    Member

    Okay, you've got the body down where the wheels line up properly in the wheel openings both front and rear, right? Doors open and close properly with consistent gaps all the way around? Good.

    Now, if I was doing this car, I'd clean all the stuff off the firewall - inside and out - and then carefully trim an opening so that the engine has plenty of clearance to the rear. You don't have to worry about the floor it would appear, so remove the S10 crossmember and give the motor room enough to be adjusted forward and back, up and down, side to side without bumping into anything solid.

    As a general rule of thumb, the engine should be as low and as far to the rear as possible without causing ground clearance problems or extending into the passenger compartment too far. With all the obstacles out of your way, find a spot that fits this general rule, block the motor in place, take a few photos and post 'em here.

    Don't worry about the sheet metal at this point, just be sure the oil pan won't hit the ground on hard bumps. Check out a complete S10 with the motor still in it. This will give you an idea where the bottom of the oil pan should be in relation to the side rails. This will determine the proper height of the engine/transmission.

    Since you'll be fabricating new floors and lower firewall anyway, you can put the engine just about anywhere front-to-back as long as you have enough room for your feet. Good work so far, Sam. Keep us informed with lots of photos, okay?

    PS: This might be a really good time to call Bob and the Central Maine Street Rod guys to see if they could give a hand wrestling that motor into position. You could do it yourself but it's more of a two-man job. Besides, they've done it before...more than once, I"ll bet!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2014
    patmanta likes this.
  8. DRD57
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 4,165

    DRD57
    Member

    Radiator and core support mounting can be a challenge when converting an old car to using a front steer arrangement like an S10. Check out this build up to see how we addressed that on a 51 Olds that we built a few years ago.

    http://www.highway99hotrods.com/JR51Olds/JR02.html
     
  9. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    I checked out you're build. I really like the car. I do have a few questions about when you did the tilted radiator. First of all what did you use for the lower radiator hose? I already bought the stock ones which obviously won't work however I've seen people use sections of copper tubing between two pieces of rubber. Second of all did you use a mechanical fan or an electric fan? Thank you for the help. I really appreciate it.
     
  10. DRD57
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 4,165

    DRD57
    Member

    It's been a few years since we built that one so, I'm a little fuzzy on some of the details. I do remember that it has an electric fan. For radiator hoses in custom installations I usually make a steel hose using tubing and U-bends and then attach that at the ends with short pieces of rubber hose. The steel tube can be plated, painted, or powder coated. We might have used that Cool-Flex crap on that car per the customer's request.
     
  11. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    Thanks for the help drd57


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  12. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    What does everyone think about the engine and radiator placement. Everything seems to fit. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415396439.884560.jpg


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  13. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,305

    missysdad1
    Member

    From what I can see it looks good. Is there enough clearance at the firewall to pull the distributor out of the motor if it should need to be replaced or serviced? Be sure to check this clearance again once you set the angle of the motor as it will probably change.
     
  14. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    It looks like I might need to do something different with the power steering pump ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415409856.606719.jpg I don't think I could mount it in the stock position on the motor without putting the engine back where it was before. I might make a mount for the s10 pump or switch to a manual box.


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  15. You'll find that happens a lot building cuśtom stuff.
    My prediction is that by the time you are 24 you'll realize that there is absolutely nothing that can't be done and even if you don't know how you'll know where to find the needed info. :)
     
  16. DRD57
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 4,165

    DRD57
    Member

    Use a later style GM PS pump with a remote reservoir. They're REALLY small and will fit in tight confines much easier.
     
  17. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,710

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    At 15, he has already found a good place to get a ton of info and source for ideas on how to solve the problems he encounters, very good start to a lifetime of a great way of life. :rolleyes::):cool:o_O:p
     
  18. oldcars.acadia
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 213

    oldcars.acadia
    Member

    Hi Sam. Looking good. The engine position looks good and your power steering pump can be repositioned easily. Check your measurements to the radiator core support to be sure you can get the radiator between that and the water pump. You may have room enough to stand the radiator straight as the hood is tall on that car. Now that your frame is shortened and rewelded you can remove the S10 trans cross member and build a new one to fit your trans. You have our numbers if we can help and will give you a call and stop by when in your area.
    Bob
    ps. Good sound advise from Eric (Missysdad1)
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
  19. yruhot
    Joined: Dec 17, 2009
    Posts: 564

    yruhot
    Member

    Nice score young blood. Good thing about a project like this is anything you do will probably be an improvement. Lots of help on this site. I'd love to see your progress. You'll have plenty of long nights coming to work on it. Hope you got some heat. Good luck and enjoy all that you will learn. Don't get disappointed, This will be something you will be proud of for the rest of your life. YRUHOT.........Doug
     
  20. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    I got all the angles right with the engine then checked to make sure I can still access the distributor and mount the radiator. After that I started to make the trans crossmember. Tomorrow I'm going to finish the crossmember and start on engine mounts ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415502365.170594.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415502423.515951.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415502440.318964.jpg


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  21. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    Here's the crossmember with mounting tabs welded on and the tabs that are getting welded to the frame. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415571916.294558.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1415571936.572817.jpg


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  22. oldcars.acadia
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 213

    oldcars.acadia
    Member

    Hi Sam. Take a look at the S10 cross member to get a reference to the size and mounting points. You may need to reinforce yours with a larger frame attachment point to get 2 bolts at the frame mounts and maybe gussets on the trans mount tab. There is a fair amount of weight and torque at that mount location. You may look at using the angled S10 cross member straight across by cutting it off and adding frame attachment pads to the cut ends.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
  23. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    I actually did make 2 gussets for the trans mount tab they just aren't pictured. I am using 2 7/16 grade 8 bolts to mount the crossmember. Which should be enough considering the trans mount bolt is only like 1/4 diameter. I might still add the second mounting bolts like you suggest because there is lots of leverage putting pressure on those mounts.
     
  24. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,305

    missysdad1
    Member

    Bob is right, Sam. The crossmember you've made is great for setup purposes and will do just fine until you get your engine placement finalized, but it's not heavy enough to do the job in the long run. As he said there's a great deal of stress on that crossmember, not all of it placed there by the engine torque.

    A parallel frame like the S10 will tend to twist in use and the center crossmember's other job is to help prevent this twisting motion from distorting the frame permanently. His idea of reusing the original S10 crossmember in a new location is a good one, or you could fabricate a new crossmember of your own design from heavier tubing, plus a couple of legs to form a K-member. In either case, remember that the frame gets its strength from the crossmembers and one should build them accordingly.
     
  25. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    Ok now I see. I already have the crossmember mostly in place. As you can see there is a crossmember directly behind mine. Could I just make a k member to this from the crossmember I made or should I start over with larger tubing. I actually could reinstall the s10 trans crossmember for rigidity if I notched it slightly. It pains me to throw out the crossmember I made as I spent a while on it but I will redo it if you guys think it's necessary. I really appreciate your advice. My car would probably fall apart the first time I drove it if you guys didn't watch out for me.


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  26. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,305

    missysdad1
    Member

    Maybe, just maybe, it's time to pause and take a deep breath, Sam. Your project has evolved from when you started and it's going in a completely different direction now that you've gained some experience and skills. The switch from your Plymouth frame to an S10 frame was a complete game-changer...absolutely for the better.

    Maybe it's time now to consider trading your Dodge engine for a Chevy engine...which will bolt right into your S10 frame with no changes at all. I appreciate the kind of emotional investment you've got in that Dodge motor. Putting it together from a basket case and getting it to run is a great accomplishment - and it would have fit like a hand in a glove in your old chassis. But that was then and this is now.

    I'm not suggesting that you should change motors, but I do think that it merits some thought. With a drive train that will literally bolt in place you can wrap up the heavy mechanical part of your build quite quickly and painlessly and then move on to the other aspects of hot rod building.

    Just a thought...
     
  27. Good for you. I am glad to see your progress. My parents had a 49 Ply. It was a tank. In the winter you could go parking with your best girl and you could turn off the car and it would stay warm inside for an hour. Good luck with the build.
    49 Ply..jpg
     
  28. oldcars.acadia
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 213

    oldcars.acadia
    Member

    Sam. Even though I am pro GM I think you keeping the 318 in your Plymouth has merit. Your build is a learning experience for you as all our builds are learning experiences for all of us. From that point of view the engineers at the manufactures, design things to be serviceable for the vehicle lifespan with the minimum expense during construction, so the engineering we do modifying things should mirror or exceed the size and strength that was done originally. The work you are doing is fine to get things in place and if it seems a bit light after all is mounted then you can brace, reinforce or if necessary replace with something of a different size or design later. These builds seldom are completed without some, or many, changes along the way. Don't get discouraged with the many bumps in the road that are sure to develop. That's what cutting tools and welders are for!! I know we all get anxious to move on to different things during a build, but it is often best to complete one thing before getting into something that looks like it may be more fun. As Eric said, be sure your body placement is on target (centered in wheel openings ) and the mounts in place to secure it. Even though some of the jobs get repetitious and boring they are important before starting others.
    Bob
     
  29. If you want a cheap way to "upgrade" the steering rag joint there are alternative parts at the local parts yards. On my off topic S-10 vehicle, I used the under hood steering shaft out of a later model astro van. Went from a rag joint to a factory universal joint. This also retains the collapsible section for safety. The other alternative I know of is under the hood of late 90s grand cherokee's and those have a vibration damper built in. Just throwing the idea out there if you run into needing/wanting a universal and possibly more angle at the flex points that the rag joint may make difficult to achieve.
     
  30. v8juice
    Joined: Dec 28, 2013
    Posts: 280

    v8juice
    Member

    Looking back I would have gone with the chevy engine. However since I already have the low mile 318 I'm going to stick with the dodge engine. Everything has good clearances besides the firewall which will be modified anyway. I'll definitely reinforce the trans crossmember as you and Bob suggested. I'm going to make two legs that bolt to the frame and another cross piece between them. This should be strong enough. Right? I really appreciate all of your help.
     

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