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Technical New wagon...loses power on ANY incline?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SpazTaztic, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    That is a blatant lie! Everyone COULD be as fast as me, they'd just have to quit putting 235's in their cars...Sorry, I know I said I was done, but I just couldn't let this scurrilous falsehood stand unchallenged....:p
     
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  2. 6-bangertim
    Joined: Oct 3, 2011
    Posts: 408

    6-bangertim
    Member
    from California

    Next comes the photos of a 235 with 2k worth of speed equipment and the old "it makes as much power as a stock 283!!" thing...:p
    I'll sit down and behave now, carry on.[/QUOTE]


    Ya, but if you see ONE SBC with a 4-bbl., you've seen them all... except MY 283... it's a Fulie!
    Feed a six with a cam and carbs, slip a 4-speed behind it... shift when the dual pipes start to rapp - fun, FUN, and MORE FUN!!! Must I remind you George that "Horsepower sells parts, but TORQUE wins races!" ??? ;) Ask the greybeards who raced flatheads how many Stovebolts and Jimmies they beat... (...crickets...) :)
     
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  3. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    I am looking at chevs of the 40's, and only see 2 different fuel pumps with vacuum pump. Metal Bowl or glass bowl. The one on currently has NO glass bowl on it, but it is still on so only know it from top view. Would the metal bowl fuel pump with vacuum pump be the one to go with, or do I need take the fuel pump off first to check for a number?
     
  4. Glass bowl = fuel filter. Metal bowl = no fuel filter.
    Two choices in dual action pump, or the single action pump.
    Which of the three do you want?.
    F.Y.I, either pump is available at your local NAPA store.
    Are you thinking the vacuum side of the pump is causing your performance problem ???
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  5. scrubby2009
    Joined: Jan 9, 2011
    Posts: 204

    scrubby2009
    Member

    In case it hasn't been checked already, dwell variation at idle and at average traveling rpm. Good to watch it under load if possible. New distributor shaft bushings are cheap enough. Had an old Y-block I re-ringed once. Sounded great in the garage, pulled like crap on the street. Finally checked dwell under load and had like 85° when it should have been 26°-28° or so. New bushings made it run right. Worth checking...
     
  6. slack
    Joined: Aug 18, 2014
    Posts: 543

    slack
    Member


    Ya, but if you see ONE SBC with a 4-bbl., you've seen them all... except MY 283... it's a Fulie!
    Feed a six with a cam and carbs, slip a 4-speed behind it... shift when the dual pipes start to rapp - fun, FUN, and MORE FUN!!! Must I remind you George that "Horsepower sells parts, but TORQUE wins races!" ??? ;) Ask the greybeards who raced flatheads how many Stovebolts and Jimmies they beat... (...crickets...) :)[/QUOTE]

    Ever heard of Jim Headrick, Cotton Perry, The Pocket Rocket? Didn't require 2k in speed equipment either George. :cool:
     
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  7. slack
    Joined: Aug 18, 2014
    Posts: 543

    slack
    Member

    I had an old Ford that wold starve like that. The cam lobe that drove the fuel pump was worn and it couldn't keep up with demand and there be some demand :rolleyes:. An electric pump would have fixed it but I sold it. Me and Ford don't get along.o_O
     
  8. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,968

    brokenspoke
    Member

    X2
     
  9. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,968

    brokenspoke
    Member

    A HEI dizzy will wake the engine up
     
  10. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    The vacuum pump on the fuel pump does not provide engine vacuum. That is there for assist vacuum for the windshield wiper motor. Disconnect & plug the hose that goes from the fuel pump vacuum to the rest of the engine vacuum system with the engine running. See if there is any vacuum at the pump vacuum connection. That will tell you if the fuel pump vacuum pump is any good or leaking. Check for good engine vacuum in the rest of the system. Your symptoms described in your first post are classic vacuum leak. Check all intake gaskets & hose ends with propane. Or something. I see nothing yet that says you have checked to see how much vacuum the engine is actually making when it starts. That won't change much as the engine warms up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  11. Engine man, boy you are right about the mice in the exhaust system. I still remember putting on the new exhaust system on the 56 buick wagon,that had been sitting a while. Thats when I put the y pipe on and the 1 mouse dropped out of it and ran up my shorts scaring the crap out of me and banging my head on the frame.LOL. When I finished putting on the rest of it on I had my step son fire her up and goose it a couple of times and about 3 or 4 more mice and their nest came flying out the tail pipe section.LOL. Bruce.
     
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  12. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    ^^^^Yee Haw
     
    Bruce Fischer likes this.
  13. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,802

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It's ez to check if the advance is working. The whole distributor moves. Just stand on the right side with the engine running, reach over and rev it up. The dist should move in a counter clockwise motion. Pertronics may have an electronic set up for it. A great investment, as said above condensers of today fail. Happened to me twice. Junked the old set up. Good luck.
     
  14. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member


    Mouse must have been going for your cheese. :p
     
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  15. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Ever heard of Jim Headrick, Cotton Perry, The Pocket Rocket? Didn't require 2k in speed equipment either George. :cool:[/QUOTE]
    I've heard of all of them. MP was handicap racing, do your homework. They weren't "beating" v8' heads-up. and they had a SHITLOAD MORE than 2k into their motors!!:rolleyes::DBruce Sizemore (never heard of him?) was running cut up Cleveland heads. Do you have any IDEA how much it costs to cut up two heads into 6 pieces, furnace brazen them back together, THEN re-machine every surface and port them? Get serious, I know guys personally that raced H/MP competitively, I know EXACTLY what was involved.
     
  16. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And inline sixes don't inherently make more torque than V-8's, and torque doesn't win races, horsepower does. "Once upon a time there were three bears...."
    1955 235 223 ft. Lbs @ 2400 rpm, 1955 265 257ft. lbs @2200 rpm.
    I'm not gonna participate in this little Internet masterbation fest anymore, it's just gonna go on and on, and lead nowhere. 235's are gutless dogs, yes, you can spend a shitload of money on them, and make WAY less power than a similar built small block, big deal.
    If you like gutless dogs, that's ok, embrace it, but save the fairy tales.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  17. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    Well hopefully the OP doesn't go cutting up his heads because he has some minor issues! Doh!!!
     
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  18. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    And hopefully he can get it running good enough to cruise it around town before taking it to the Winternationals to go head to head with Antron Brown! Good grief!!
     
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  19. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    I like 235s and I like old wagons and the old engines aren't gutless dogs but do exactly what they are designed for. They can be woken up a bit, and many people get enjoyment from tinkering with them. I don't see any fairy tales in that. That is all.....
     
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  20. slack
    Joined: Aug 18, 2014
    Posts: 543

    slack
    Member

    I've heard of all of them. MP was handicap racing, do your homework. They weren't "beating" v8' heads-up. and they had a SHITLOAD MORE than 2k into their motors!!:rolleyes::DBruce Sizemore (never heard of him?) was running cut up Cleveland heads. Do you have any IDEA how much it costs to cut up two heads into 6 pieces, furnace brazen them back together, THEN re-machine every surface and port them? Get serious, I know guys personally that raced H/MP competitively, I know EXACTLY what was involved.[/QUOTE]

    Well EXCUUUUUUUSE MEEEEEEEE.
    indexrrr.jpg
    My dad knew Jim and I was privy to a conversation between him and my dad at a local eatery. Unless I am mistaken, he told dad that he would cut one cylinder from two v-8 heads and weld them together. He also said he got the blocks "dirt cheap" and he had his own machine shop (Race Engine Design) which is still in business about 5 miles down the road here. A friend of mine who spoke with Cotton said they made their own intake too. I don't know if that's true or not. Honest Charlie's fed em parts. Maybe he charged himself for his own machine work. :rolleyes: And, in my estimation, 1/10 of a second ain't much when you're giving up two cylinders but I will definitely concede as I am nowhere near as serious about it as you chief. :cool:

    HE HATES 235 CHEVYS !!!!!
    images.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
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  21. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    Here is a top view picture I took. So I am safe with either pump? I may go up to the glass bowl for the extra filter unless you guys think it is overkill? They just closed the local NAPA- bought out by Advanced Auto Parts here. So will see if the one near where I work is still open when I go back to work Thursday. Do they come with gaskets, or do I need to buy a couple of those to have on hand too?

    Will take a look Thursday when I go by. I am still figuring out how to do some of this stuff as I go. So I may do a few things wrong or super slow. But learning and having fun while doing it is part of it, right? haha

    I will look at them. Is it easy to figure out which one I need, or do I need to give them a call?

    Vacuum is is good from the intake / carb area. Going everywhere up to the fuel pump. Then none leaving going to wipers. Bypassed the vacuum pump on fuel filter and the wipers worked great. Plus it because it takes a bit to get fuel pulling and slight leak- I think it may be pulling air in line and losing all vacuum at that point. Worth a new fuel pump to see. Intake gaskets all seem to be fine.

    I didn't know to watch if it moved. Will def check this out when I go to work on it again Thursday after work. Thanks! Petronics has a 12v setup- put it on the belair, but it was converted very roughly to 12v before I got it. So I think they are just 12v setups. Which is on my list of future upgrades

    I'm not looking to race it- just make it a dependable driver. Plan to do Route 66 from Texas to Cali when I get her lined out and get comfortable with her. The Route 66 trip is something I promised my grandmother I would take her on years ago- just trying to get there for next year or the next at the latest if possible. After that there may be more future upgrades, but after the memories are made with my grandmother.
     

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  22. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And, in my estimation, 1/10 of a second ain't much when you're giving up two cylinders but I will definitely concede as I am nowhere near as serious about it as you chief. :cool:

    HE HATES 235 CHEVYS !!!!!
    View attachment 3400778 [/QUOTE]


    Man, I really want to extricate myself from this waist deep heap of steaming bullshit, but guys keep posting just flat out lies.
    H/MP was 9.5 lbs per ci. The equivalent 9.5 lb per ci V8 class was C/MP. I just looked this up, Cotton Perry won the Gators in 1979 with a string of 10.60's. At the same race Dave McDonald ran 9.95's in D/MP, which is 10 lbs per ci. So he was giving up a weight advantage of somewhere in the area of 150lbs to Cotton, and running 7 tenths faster. Some "tenth":rolleyes: man, if I could pick up that kind of "tenth" in my clunky old shop truck, I'd be in the 11.30's!:)
    And an excellent comparison, THE best running H/MP car in the country at the time, vs one of the best 10 lb per ci V8 cars in the country at the time.

    But I DO like the Steve Martin reference, that's why I left it in there!:p
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  23. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    Lol! This new guy shows off his cool wagon he just got, asks for a little help troubleshooting, and next thing ya know peeps are cutting up his heads and dropping names and talking about 10ths of seconds! I really do like the old 235s! So much more attention than sbc's! Rock on Spaz! Really like your ride and hope you get her running tits!
     
  24. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Nope, just setting the usual six cylinder bullshit straight. You six cylinder guys stop posting BULLSHIT, and I will gladly stop setting the record straight....;):D
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  25. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    Nope what? No bullshit in what I posted. Help the guy if you know anything about his 235. That's all this thread is about! :)
     
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  26. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Well, I realize this is probably going to pretty devasting for you, but I wasn't responding to YOU, I was responding to slack.
     
  27. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    Yes I'm devastated that you weren't responding to me. You quoted me then say you weren't responding to me? That's pretty confusing! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF STEVE MARTIN! Let's help the guy with his 235 and get it running good! That's all he asked for!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  28. No but you were the one who came onto someones post who was asking for help and started the shit storm with a smart ass post that added nothing to the OP's situation.
     
  29. SpazTaztic
    Joined: Aug 5, 2009
    Posts: 430

    SpazTaztic
    Member

    After looking up some different pump pictures online, it looks like the currently installed pump is an Artex 9797. As long as it is a vacuum pump on the fuel pump, I guess it doesnt matter which i get right? Or I could just get a fuel pump only and just run new lines directly to the wipers from the carb / intake?

    I will probably keep with the fuel pump with vacuum pump because that is what it has now. Big question now- with or without the fuel filter on top?
     
  30. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,540

    RMONTY
    Member

    Extra fuel filter can't be all bad. It is however one more place to get stopped up. If you have adequate filtration elsewhere I don't see the need.
     
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