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Need advice/opinion

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by old sparks, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. old sparks
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Posts:
    64
    Location:
    Jamestown Cal.

    old sparks Member

    my name is Dan Maciel,and have been drag racing for a number of years. My last ride was in 7.0 pro. Ive had enough of the expense,rule changes,etc. not to mention my reaction times which could be recorded by an egg timer. I saw an article on the hamb/sdra dragster and got fired up again. Im going to build one, but I have limited experience on inliners/flatheads so I need some advice/opinions. I have a 270 gmc,a model a frt axle,3 speeds,4speeds,powerglides,9 in. etc. If anyone would be willing to offer an opinion,please feel
    free.
    thanks
  2. Old28
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Posts:
    982
    Location:
    Bakersfield, CA

    Old28 Member

    Dan,

    Welcome to the HAMB HA/GR forum, we SDRA guys hang out here too.

    With the parts you have it looks like your half ways to either type of car. You should read the rules posted at the top of the HA/GR to see how you might fit into that type of car and you can find the SDRA rules by going to "Tulsa Raceway Park" site.

    In general the difference in the two classes of car is the motor year, Stick or auto trans and the tire rule. All of this is covered very well in each rule section.

    I came from the N/E-1 & 2 group that NHRA has about screwed up as much as possible so I know were your coming from. I am currently building a SDRA car to run at the strip in Bakersfield (Famoso). You can see my build thread on here "SDRA Dragster For The Coast Build Thread". I am sure "Old6rodder" his name is Dick will feed you some more information, he started the HA/GR deal in our area.

    I think you will enjoy these HAMBster cars and the racers. If you have a chance to get out of town some of these cars should be at the ANRA Opener Race at Famoso 4/21 & 22.

    If you decide to go with it, start a build thread with lots of pictures, we lovvvve pictures. Good luck, Tom Welch
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  3. Old Jimmy Six
    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Posts:
    41
    Location:
    Humansville Mo

    Old Jimmy Six Member

    Well never let it be said that I was reluctant to give advice. The 270 is a good engine. You need a head off a 302 GMC that the head # ends in 983. Put small block chevy valves in it with about 110# of seat pressure. Bore the block to 4 in. (1/8th over) and call up Ron Iskandarian at Isky cams and tell him you are running a dragster and don't plan on turning it more than 6000. He will do the rest. THe big problem with the GMC is it is tall block (11 in. from center of crank to top of block) the rods on are to short and the only rods I know of is Hudson Rods from the 50's Hudson Hornet which are 8.1 in. in length. They are light and they require a very short and light piston, J and E will supply those. If you can't get the Hudson rods then go with stock rods and as light of piston as you can go with about 12 to 1 compression. If you don't bore the block to 4 in don't use the 983 head because the valves won't clear the 270 walls. The most important thing is a good balancer like a Rattler for a small block chevy. Put enough carburators on it to equal 750 cfm and put them on a manifold about 13 inches from the valve and the Jimmy will come alive. Run 34 to 36 degrees timing with a locked distributor.

    Attached Files:

  4. Old Jimmy Six
    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Posts:
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    Location:
    Humansville Mo

    Old Jimmy Six Member

    I forgot the most important thing unshroud the intake valve on any GMC head, it is more important than taking a lot of metal out of the ports which the walls are only about 100 thousands thick anyway so clean up the ports and do some bowl work plus on shroud the the intakes. :)
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  5. old sparks
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Posts:
    64
    Location:
    Jamestown Cal.

    old sparks Member

    thanks for the input. As soon as I collect enough parts and finish the latest round of honey do`s I`m getting started. I have a few questions
    #1 whats it take to mate a later style bell housing to the 1958 gmc
    #2 Is it legal to use the stilleto/p&s steering box
    #3 Are fabricated intakes acceptable
    #4 Is it acceptable to use wcfb carb
    What is the reason for not allowing a rev limiter
    Again,thanks for the input
  6. Old Jimmy Six
    Joined:
    May 24, 2011
    Posts:
    41
    Location:
    Humansville Mo

    Old Jimmy Six Member

    You will need a 3/8" engine plate with a 1/2" spacer behind it because the GMC crank sticks out behind the block. Take a 153 tooth Chevy flexplate and drill the crank pattern on it. One hole will overlap into the Chevy pattern but don't worry. Set up a Ford starter to mess with the flexplate the kind that bolts flat against the bell housing. Then you will have a pattern for your powerglide and just make sure you are centered for your torqueconverter to go in the back of the crank and pull the pilot bearing before. I made my engine plate from aluminum but if you can cut steel and your not caring about weight to much steel plate would work. I made my engine plate so it doubles as an engine mount to the frame. Run a 10" converter with as high a stall as you can afford. Hope all this helps because it took me a long time to figure all this out and why make your reinvent the wheel.
  7. Old28
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Posts:
    982
    Location:
    Bakersfield, CA

    Old28 Member

    I think Old Jimmy Six answered the #1 question.

    #2 - either one is OK in both HA/GR or SDRA or build your own, I used a VW box.

    #3 - most all of the HA/GR & SDRA cars run some type of home fabricated intake. No 4Bl carbs on HA/GR, they are OK on SDRA cars, but see the rule on type.

    #4 - I think a WCFB is OK for SDRA cars, but other may know for sure.

    Rev Limiters -- You will have to ask the experts.:confused:

    Dan: as a footnote there are 2 or 3 HA/GR and 4 SDRA cars being built or modified in the Southern & Central, CA area that I know about at this time.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
  8. Joe Hamby
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
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    405
    Location:
    broken arrow, Ok.

    Joe Hamby Member

    Rule 16 does not mention how many ventura's (barrels). WCFB would be era specific. I use a Carter AFB, 400CFM, It's off a 58 Plymouth. Use two of those WCFB's if you want.
  9. Kerrynzl
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Posts:
    641
    Location:
    Tauranga, New Zealand

    Kerrynzl Member

    So the promoters can sell more hotdogs during extended intermissions , while the crew clean up the track.

    I also think it is to keep electronics away from these vehicles
    You can also use the limiter as a driver aid to help "power-shift" through the gears
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  10. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
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    Location:
    so cal

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi Dan, welcome aboard. My feelings on the matter are that if you are fed up with the N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) games and expenses, rule changes and so on, the reason you are considering this build is that you want to bring the FUN back into the disFUNctional system. That being said, I would recommend building with a relatively stock engine, build your own intake for a few extra carbs, hang a three speed stick behind it and join into the insanity that is the HA/GR bunch. A couple of passes can be a total time warp back to when drag racing was about building simple cars on garage floors and racing with guys that will help you find and fix problems in the pits so they can race you the next round. Whatever you build, don't be afraid to think out of the modern box. Build what you want, enjoy the build and have fun with it.
    Ours isn't done yet, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189651 (hey, I'm old and slow, the car probably will be too), but it's been the most fun I've had in drag racing since my first pass in 1962.
  11. old sparks
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
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    Location:
    Jamestown Cal.

    old sparks Member

    It looks like I`m going with the sdra format. I`m not into rule bending,my problem no one else`s. I`m going to stay with the gmc even though the rod angle is poor for the application. The midplate adaptor is a good thing.It makes the build that much more fun. Can`t wait to get started.For anyone that cares the auto-meter pro rpm controller is a electro -mechanical relay device that shuts all ignition off at the preset rpm. This eliminates the seat of the pants shift lite. I used this device on an injected motor running pop and it worked well. Again I would like to thank everyone for their input. now I have to get off my tired old ass and get started. Any more input is welcome.
    thanks, old sparks
  12. Old6rodder
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Posts:
    1,986
    Location:
    SoCal

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Howdy Sparks,

    Please add my "Welcome to the postwar passionates." to the list.
    You're just west of another of my passions, the WSLCo. I'm into Sn3.

    You've already made the most important decision, HA/GR or SDRA.
    Some've considered "conversion" cars, but as yet no one's done it. Besides, since we run together anyway, it could conceivably be a rough choice to keep making for each meet. :)

    You're already a builder and a driver (excellent :cool:), and your specific info questions're being responded to (nice forum here, eh?), so all I can add for the moment is perhaps a bit of frameworking (most of which I expect you've already discerned).

    The overview of HA/GR is "living the postwar past" to the extent we might. We're into building our cars "garage style", doing as much of the work ourselves as we can manage, using as many period parts (or representating'em) as we can scrounge up, and racing as close to the way they were raced then as we can facilitate. It's about the experience first, thus it'll always be an arcanum, a small corner of the racing fraternity.

    The overview of SDRA is the nearly same, with the allowance of certain later equipment, techniques, and racing styles. This appeals to those not quite so manic about the era itself, but enamored of the cars, and the general look & feel of the class. It also allows for more work farmed out to shops, and for more modern practices. As a result, while never being "big" per se, it'll always be more popular than HA/GR. This due to its broader appeal to a wider range of racers.

    To these ends all of us have to concede certain things to the governing bodies we race under (to the best of my knowlege, none of us own a strip yet :D). Safety equipment, class options, track procedures, etc, being some of'em.
    This will ALWAYS be a bone of contention between us and bodies like the NfHRA, due to widely differing interests & goals. We do the best we can with'em.

    So, the rev limiter question is answered in HA/GR by the fact that if there were such a thing in the postwar period, they weren't seen at strips. Drivers either learned how to avoid breaking their engines, clutches, gearboxes, rear ends, etc ..... or they broke things. That was the era.

    I believe that the SDRA equation will likely eventually allow'em in some limited form (perhaps in the vein of what you have), due to the more modern capabilities they allow in their builds and the more money they spend on'em.
    Correction, rev limiters are allowed already in SDRA's rules.


    A couple indirectly related observations of mine, for what little they're worth .......
    One; as with all internet forums, there'll be some "drama" here from time to time. Most of it'll center around the claim; "If y'all'd change rule ____, I'd build me one of'em.".
    Our final answer's predictable; "Build it, and we'll see."

    Seven years along now, and the sum of all our "drama" has resulted in a single rule change early on (no slush pumps), and a single succesful "spin-off" class (SDRA, a strong addition to the concept, bringing in a second style of racer) ......
    ..... so far, so good. :cool:

    Two; one of the things some of us older folks had trouble learning was to aviod taking the drama personally. I finally, finally figured out that the internet is essentially a billion member family & in-law gathering. Everyone has a mouth, no matter how banal, witty, stupid, wise, rash, or considered they are. The nice thing is that I get to choose who to hold conversations with, who to nod politely at (while chuckling inside), and who to bluntly ignore (while mentally deleting them from my granddaughters' & great granddaughters' potential mate lists) .....
    ...... and I can leave for a bit if it gets annoying enough. :D


    I hope you'll let me add you to our "picture/info" thread (a parts pile picture's more than acceptable as an opening photo, and info & pictures can be updated at any time). Feel free to private message or e-mail me on that, it's a nice thread link for "pumping" & growing our HAMBster classes.
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  13. ThingyM
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Posts:
    808
    Location:
    LaMirada Cal.

    ThingyM Member

    Dan. Welcome to the Old mans games and frolics.. I hope you have a real blast building and driving one of these post war cars.. Even though you have been a driver lately, Your gonna find out its a horse of a different color getting your car of the line in a timely matter. Those 6" tires don't like to be hammered off the line like your other cars.. BTW. You wouldn't happen to be a relative of my buddy Mitch Maciel would ya.???? The other Dick in this group..
  14. mudflap261
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
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    588
    Location:
    tulsa

    mudflap261 Member

    well said old six
  15. old sparks
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Posts:
    64
    Location:
    Jamestown Cal.

    old sparks Member

    Please allow me to explain myself. I do not nor ever would want to cause any friction or drama. My reason for building one of these cars is not only to engage in some lower keyed fun at the sport that I enjoy but to allow friends and family to learn and enjoy it also. In my opinion the rev limiter allows this without hitting my sponser to hard (social security) .
    I drove the code-3 altered in 7-0 pro for 3 years. I also helped on the nostalgia funny car code red which ended up being the dickie harrel tribute car. What I`m trying to say is I`ve done the hurry up change the bullet,etc and want to have some fun with maybe a little competition thrown in the mix. I hope this clarifys things and keeps me from stepping in it again
    Thanks, old sparks
  16. Old28
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
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    Location:
    Bakersfield, CA

    Old28 Member

    Old6rodder - Nice "Wordage", but it took an hour out of my building day to read it and all I want to know is do you have a PICTURE verion for us not so good with the writing stuff???????:rolleyes:

    old sparks - well Don, I gave you a heads up in the PM I sent. Great people and lots of fun on this site. You will fit in just fine and I think the racing will be what you are looking for. No further clarification needed.;)
  17. ThingyM
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
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    808
    Location:
    LaMirada Cal.

    ThingyM Member

    I knew the "Code Red Car" And Lee Jennings somewhat..I still have my "Midnight Madness" fiat altered that Eric Christianson drives.. I built a car for me to drive, But now I'm going for a 300" ford 6 and a C-4 trans with a cut down 9" with a 52" tread..Now I won't have to bang gears.. So have fun..I'm sure you will enjoy it...
  18. 64 DODGE 440
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    so cal

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Heck Dick, save some time and just put the 300" Ford and C-4 and 52" rear into the Fiat! You could have the first HAMBster coupe.
  19. Old6rodder
    Joined:
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    SoCal

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. HA/GR owners group

    No, you haven't stepped in it at all. :D
    I only hoped to help inure you to the occasional drama of others, that has cost us new members in the past (if you're already used to these forum things, then that help was superfluous).

    The rev limiter question is one that's been considered by the SDRA boys on here for a bit already, just isn't resolved as yet.
    Correction. Rev limiters are already allowed under SDRA rules.

    Your reasons for joining the HAMBster bunch are our reasons for being here as well. They were also the reasons for its inception. :cool:


    '28,

    These'd be my favorite picture versions so far .......

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :cool:
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2012
  20. Old28
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
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    982
    Location:
    Bakersfield, CA

    Old28 Member

    Now that's better, nice group. The picture speaks for it's self.:D
  21. CrkInsp
    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
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    482
    Location:
    B.A. OK

    CrkInsp Member

    Under SDRA rule #2 Ignitions
    Conversions such as Pertronix that fit inside the distributor are allowed.
    NO; - Magnetos, HEI's or electronic boxes that mount outside the distributor
    with the exception of a revlimiter.
  22. Old6rodder
    Joined:
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    SoCal

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Thanks, CI. My links to the SDRA site all come up bad now, has it been changed, or is there a new site?

    Sparks, here's a link to their rules, on the Tulsa site.
    http://www.tulsaracewaypark.com/rules/rules/sdra-rules
  23. old sparks
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
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    64
    Location:
    Jamestown Cal.

    old sparks Member

    I`d love to send pictures but I have to learn how. My computer skills suck.Also I`m doing this on dialup. I`m to much of a tight wad to get the only hi speed availible where I live. The state hunter got two mountain lions across the road from my house just last year if that gives you any indication.
  24. Old6rodder
    Joined:
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    SoCal

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Sparks, posting pictures to the forum requires having'em "hosted" on an internet site. You can just e-mail'em to me and I'll be happy to post'em up for you.
  25. nexxussian
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Anchorage, Alaska

    nexxussian
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Bummer about the dialup. :(

    I have my stuff hosted at photobucket, haven't tried anyone else that's still around.

    A side benefit is that hard drive crash won't cause you to loose all your pics anymore. :D

    Maybe you haven't had that problem, but I have, and a separate place to store them is worth the hassle in and of itself.

    If you have a laptop, or other portable electronic device maybe you could store them up and upload hem quickly at a store or resteraunt with wifi, however often you might be at one of those places.
  26. plym_46
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
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    3,179
    Location:
    central NY

    plym_46 Member

    You can sign up for one of the may Photo hosting sites. then rather than going through the long process on dial up of posting inndividual picture, you can just post the link to you album when pictures are added. Photobucket, Flickr, etc.

    If you want to put up an occasional photo, Imageshack works pretty easily and you do not need to register an account. You can do 1 or a couple at a time.
  27. Joe Hamby
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
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    405
    Location:
    broken arrow, Ok.

    Joe Hamby Member

    I just put my pictures on a flash drive, or thumb drive. That way you control them and store them yourself.
  28. nexxussian
    Joined:
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    Location:
    Anchorage, Alaska

    nexxussian
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Joe, I've had too many of those fail.
  29. Joe Hamby
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
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    405
    Location:
    broken arrow, Ok.

    Joe Hamby Member

    Thanks Erik, thats not good.
  30. old sparks
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Posts:
    64
    Location:
    Jamestown Cal.

    old sparks Member

    Picture will be coming soon. Is anyone going to eagle field? I understand that it is just south of Los Banos on I-5.

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