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Muncie 4 speed vs Saginaw 4 speed?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ssk875, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. ssk875
    Joined: Jan 15, 2011
    Posts: 61

    ssk875
    BANNED
    from Buffalo

    Looking for a chevy transmission for my hot rod I dont know much about trannys, anyone have any preferences over the muncie vs the saginaw?
     
  2. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 724

    Black Panther
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal

    Muncies are stronger...they used them behind all of the highest hp cars GM ever made, LS6 Chevelles, tripower 427 Corvettes etc...the Saginaw was/is a low performance cast iron transmission normally used in base engine cars like 327 2 barrel Camaros...that being said they are popular because they are cheap and in lightweight old cars they hold up ok since there normally isnt enough traction to break them..
     
  3. ssk875
    Joined: Jan 15, 2011
    Posts: 61

    ssk875
    BANNED
    from Buffalo

    Ok thanks thats what i needed I need something a little stronger then the saginaw
    Thanks
     
  4. Deadbird
    Joined: Jul 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,016

    Deadbird
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Muncie for sure. How can you beat a rock crusher?
     
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  5. Don't rule out the late 70's Borg Warner Super T10 transmission too. They came in the Z28, Trans am and Corvette's ... stronger than a Saginaw and quite possibly cheaper than a Muncie.
     
  6. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,413

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    'Muncie', I had a 'Saginaw' behind my hopped up 6yl and it wasn't up to the task. Plus 'Muncie' is lighter with an alloy case when compared to heavier cast 'Saginaw' case.
     
  7. carlos
    Joined: May 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,339

    carlos
    Member
    from ohio

    what you going to do with it,go for the muncie if your wallet can stand it but a sag can be bought allot cheaper
     
  8. The net top loaders is the best ... None of that linkage to be in the way and no adjusting ...
     
  9. nwbhotrod
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,080

    nwbhotrod
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from wash state

    You can get a lower first gear in the Borg Warner also
     
  10. 42hotrod
    Joined: Nov 3, 2005
    Posts: 811

    42hotrod
    Member
    from S.E. Idaho

    Also, again if your wallet can handle it, there are several companies out there now building what are being called "Super Muncies". All brand new components, heavier case, iron midplate, beefier M22 geasr sets in a variety of ratios. One brand new with warranty will set you back just under 2G's, but a good friend of mine is running one behind a 511 BBC on spray, has made over 850 HP on a chassis dyno, so over 1K horsepower at the flywheel and he had no problems, even launching it at the dragstrip!!


    Scot
     
  11. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,055

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    I like the Muncie better. You can do a search on here. This question has been asked before.
     
  12. Saginaws offer a lower 1st gear than most Muncies and will hold up pretty well but won't take 1/2 the beating that a Muncie will. I had one in a '66 Nova and it did well even with a hole shot or 12... Gotta have a good shifter on them though.

    Bob
     
  13. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,742

    Drive Em
    Member

    The Super T-10 is by far a superior transmission to the Muncie, in all ways. They can still be bought new from Summit as the Richmond 4 speed, and you have a choice of ratios.
     
  14. Keep in mind, Muncie's are available in close ratio and wide ratio. You should try and get one that will suit your driving needs and the set up you are running. Yes, the T-10 is better than both the forementioned tranny's, TR
     
  15. Two other items I'd like to mention. If buying a used tranny, pull the side cover and look see inside, dont take someones word it's good. Bring a telescoping magnet and go through the gear lube in the bottom of the case.
    Remember these tranny's use GEAR LUBE, NOT ATF like newer model transmissions. Also, do your homework and learn about the " rings ' on the input shaft, these will help in I.D.ing the trans, TR
     
  16. 42hotrod
    Joined: Nov 3, 2005
    Posts: 811

    42hotrod
    Member
    from S.E. Idaho

    All really good advice, I would add one thing on the rings on the input shaft though. All replacement shafts since the 60's have no rings cut in them so if you get a shaft without any you will know it has more than likely had a replacement input shaft. No biggie, just means you'll have to do some tooth counting on 1st gear to get your intial ratio to figure out what tranny you have.

    Muncies are a really unique tranny because of parts interchangability. If you decode the average muncie today you may find a pontiac main case, an oldsmobile tailshaft housing and a chevy mid plate all through the numbers. Most rebuilders in the day had big buckets of parts and if they needed a main housing they grabbed one regardless of the part number because they all interchange. Pretty rare to find an all correct muncie in this day and age.


    The one in my 55 chevy was a 66 pontiac main body with unknown input shaft or tailshaft housing. I had to count the teeth to determine internally it was an M-20 wide ratio.


    Good luck, there are a ton of websites out there to help you figure out what parts you need or what your looking at if your buying used complete. If it is an actual M22 (everyone says they have a "rockcrusher", I've only seen two actually turn out to be real M22's) They are worth a good chunk of change and worth repairing. If you've got a real M22, you'll know it by driving it, with the angle of the gears they howl like a sum bitch going down the road. as in LOUD. And changes pitch with every shift.

    My .02 if my opinion is worth that today, for a good all around street car, i'll take an M20 any day of the week. The closeness of of the 2-3 shift in a close ratio means most of the time you end up skipping second anyway and shifting 1st, 3rd, 4th on the street.



    Scot
     
  17. Thanks Scot for that info on the input shaft rings, good to know, TR
     
  18. derbydad276
    Joined: May 29, 2011
    Posts: 1,075

    derbydad276
    Member

    if your building a lite medium horsepower car a saginaw will work fine also they cost a hell of a lot less than a muncie
     
  19. davidbistolas
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 962

    davidbistolas
    Member

    Saginaw: $

    Muncie: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  20. Hdonlybob
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 3,011

    Hdonlybob
    Member

    Saginaw's come in three or four different gear ratios, making it a great medium HP trans in my opinion....also as said here .....very low cost compared to others.
    I am using a two ring shaft which is a 3.11 first gear with a 3.36 rear end that gives mg good performance for my little warmed up 283.
    Here are the gear ratios available:
    Saginaw 4 speed
    1st 2nd 3rd 4th
    3.50-2.48-1.65-1.00
    3.11-2.20-1.47-1.00
    2.85-2.01-1.47-1.00
    2.54-1.80-1.44-1.00
    Good luck on your choice.
    Cheers........
     
  21. mike hohnstein
    Joined: Dec 4, 2011
    Posts: 264

    mike hohnstein
    BANNED
    from wisconsin

    I own a medium sized trans reman facility www.AutoTransDesign.com we do a lot of vintage work. The notion of finding a usable Muncie in this day and age seems a stretch at best, had a hard time finding good parts 25 years ago. Now before the flames, I ran a stick shift mid 9 second 2800# drag car for a long time and Doug Nash 5 sp 2.80 first gear ratio was the tool of choice so I have a pretty good idea about how powershifting and clutches and shit like that work.
    My present personal toy is a Hamb unfriendly 70 Monte w/oval port 496, 3.55 and a Super T-10 because I had one. I never get a used trans through the shop that is usable when inspected and I can afford not to screw customers. Had a Mopar guy send three different units he had been sitting on for years, in dry storage, however gears were pitted from moisture over the years, don't see that until disassembled and run through the hot water washer. 90 weight can hide a lot. I've posted this before but it bears repeating, ALL PARTS are made in fucking India or some other overseas place and that calls into question all sorts of things, like rockwell hardness, metalurgy etc etc. I get a kick out of how long legends last, like the 'unbreakable' M-22s, and how Ford ATF is the only thing to use.
     
  22. I have an M-22 (confirmed when rebuilt) and a Saginaw and like them both. The rebuild parts for my rock crusher cost more than what I paid for the Saginaw. I like the Saginaw for everyday driving because it is quieter and as someone said earlier I skip second quite often on the M-22. Unless you are planning on flogging your transmission a lot, I would go with the Saginaw for an everyday driver just because of the cost. Having said that, I would not dream of putting the Saginaw behind my 454.
     
  23. cheepsk8
    Joined: Sep 5, 2011
    Posts: 224

    cheepsk8
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from west ky

    Not to mention, reverse on a Muncie is up and out of the way, lots better if you have a tight seating issue. They are better in every way I can think of.
     
  24. teddyp
    Joined: May 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,197

    teddyp
    Member

    was there ever a saginaw 4 speed with other then a cast iron base?
     
  25. davidbistolas
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 962

    davidbistolas
    Member

    up and out of the way? what do you mean?
     
  26. SLCK64
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 433

    SLCK64
    Member

    Thank god I have a FoMoCo product! Only need one choice....Toploader!
     
  27. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 435

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I recall reading somewhere that someone makes an overdrive gearset for the later Muncie case with the 1" cluster shaft. Original 1:1 fourth becomes third, original third gear is an overdrive. Shift pattern remains the same by turning the 3-4 lever on the side of the case down. Anyone know more about this?
     

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