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Mopar flattie + 700R or 318/ 904?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Shaggy's Dad, Jun 29, 2007.

  1. Shaggy's Dad
    Joined: Feb 2, 2005
    Posts: 136

    Shaggy's Dad
    Member

    My dodge project goes forth at a snails pace And I'm thinking to scale down my grand design for a raked gasser style with 318/ 904 Nova rear 3.08 gears to doing more of a resto with the original running flattie with a wilcap adapter for a 700R and the stock rear. My son wants the 318 to stroke it out and put it in an RX-7 rather than the usual 302 Ford. we already have another daily driver for going fast. the Dodge is just for cruiising to shows and events.

    My question is, would the flattie/ 700R or 200R be adequate for cruising? I'm thinking Offy, dual carbs, Langdon's cast dual exhaust manifolds, Petronics ignition, 060 off the head.
     
  2. I think you'd hate the auto with a stock engine, but I think it might cruise OK with the hopped up one.
    I was pleasantly surprised at the horsepower gained with dual carbs and a split exhaust on my internally stock 230, can't wait to get a fully built engine in the car.
    Blueskies runs his car all over the country with the stick OD, I can't imagine the auto would hurt THAT much. Might need a slightly higher stall converter to overcome the torque loss, but that's about it.
     
  3. gahi
    Joined: Jun 29, 2005
    Posts: 734

    gahi
    Member
    from Moab, UT

    I drove a 52 Desoto for a while with the stock 251. It was great on the highway, would cruise 65-70 no problem. I had it up around 85 once, but it was revving pretty high. It had the semi-auto Tip-Toe transmission.
     
  4. twofosho
    Joined: Nov 10, 2005
    Posts: 1,158

    twofosho
    Member

    If you're already thinking Mopar as in 318 (what a concept, a Mopar that's really a Mopar), find yourself a 360 Magnum/518 OD automatic out of an early 90s Dodge PU. Same size and weight as a 318 with a lot more suds, add in the bulletproof OD lockup automatic transmission already mated to the motor and it's a no brainer.
    Use a 90 non electronic transmission (possibly loosing the lock up convertor) and convert it to a four barrel and use the conventional electronic distributor (73 and up) if you don't want to hassle wiring in the FI computer.
    I saw an a 37 Studebaker with the entire chassis/floorpan from an A body welded in to make it a unibody at the Portland swapmeet. Something like that would really get the juices flowing, not to mention making a dynamite handling, fairly light weight all MOPAR finished piece.
    Add in bits from the current DC (sorry, I meant Mopar Performance) catalog and the Firm Feel guys in Vancouver, Wa and you could make that old dog really sit up and take notice.
     
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  5. Shaggy's Dad
    Joined: Feb 2, 2005
    Posts: 136

    Shaggy's Dad
    Member

    looks like the 318 will be the ticket.
     
  6. blueskies
    Joined: Jan 22, 2003
    Posts: 545

    blueskies
    Member
    from Idaho

    As mentioned above, I run my flatty six all over the place in my '50 Plymouth. It's the original 218 block, bored 30 over, stroked to a 230 with a NOS 230 crank and rods, dual intake and exhaust, 3/4 cam, finned 9:1 compression head, and a Langdon mini GM HEI.

    I'm also running a stock '55 Dodge three speed with overdrive and the original 3.9:1 rear end. The car will run 75mph all day long at 2500 rpms. It redlines at 4000rpms, so it will go as fast as I'll ever need it to go. The overdrive is a 33% reduction, so it makes a huge difference in drivability at speed.

    I had it up to 85 for a while on the freeway a few weeks ago without effort. These engines are torque monsters, so even in third over, it will pull from 60 to 75 as well as my '07 FJ Cruiser with a 4 liter V6. I wouldn't bother with the adapter and automatic, you'll spend less to find a junkyard overdrive and rebuild it. The overdrives are great, they are a direct swap for the stock three speed, no other mods necessary other than the lockout cable and wiring. Very easy to install, wire, drive, etc.

    All that said, the flatty will never have the power of a 318 or 360. It just depends on what you are looking for. It will not white smoke the tires for a block, but it will surprise lots of folks off the line and will cruise at freeway speeds all day long without breaking a sweat and get 20 mpg.

    I love the sound it makes, it's different than all the other six cylinder engines out there. If I were to do my '50 Plymouth all over again, I would not ditch the six, I think it's right for the car. My car is damn-near the homeliest car design ever produced, and I think stuffing an ordinary V8 under the hood would have made even more of an abortion than it already is... The hopped-up six is something that nearly everyone who sees it has never seen, so they tend to notice the rest of the car less:D. If I were building a traditional hot rod, I would go for the power.

    You can see all the stuff I've done with my engine at www.50plymouth.com. There's tons of pics and some sound clips too.

    Hope this helps with your decision...

    Pete
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Shaggy's Dad
    Joined: Feb 2, 2005
    Posts: 136

    Shaggy's Dad
    Member

    My wife actually likes the before pic of your plymouth! Something about the beige color. thanks for your input. you car probably weighs less than the FJ Cruiser. I also have a Mopar 3.9 with overbore pistons to take it to 4 liters and a rare aluminum 4 bbl intake for it. I have also considered that mill for the 40 sedan for a bit better balance. That got nixed because, for that matter why not just keep the flattie and save the rebuild and swap costs. What do I need to look for in a factory overdrive?

    The V8 under the hood is what people expect to see. The dual carb flattie is a "piece". I'm not into tire smoke but as wifey puts it, I don't want to be rear ended trying to merge on the interstate.
    Lou
     
  8. blueskies
    Joined: Jan 22, 2003
    Posts: 545

    blueskies
    Member
    from Idaho

    That's funny about the color, folks either love it or hate it. But they always comment on it one way or another.... Same thing with the flathead six.

    The unit that you want is the R-10 three speed overdrive.

    [​IMG]

    There are variations on the R-10, because of fluid-drive, V8 applications, etc. I think they started making them in '52-3? and I think they changed them in '56-7? Can't remember the exact dates now, but there are guys on the P15-D24 site who know.

    You can buy a rebuilt one from George Asche, in PA. His contact info is on my website in the suppliers page. Spendy though, about $1200. You can do a complete rebuild yourself and save a bunch to spend elsewhere. I paid about $300 for mine including the shipping, and spent about another $400 for all the replacement parts, new electrics, and lockout cable.

    Mine had the wrong input pinion shaft on it, it was 9" too long. It also had busted gears, and the freewheeling clutch was f'd up. I found new parts along with a few used ones, and a some of the gears from my good three speed to rebuild the tranny and overdrive guts. Early and late model three speeds have different synchros, so some of the parts are not interchangable between the two, like the input pinion shaft.

    You can't add the overdrive half to the regular three speed tranny cases, they have some internal differences. But the length of the tranny with overdrive is the same as the regular three speed tranny, unless you have a long or short wheel base car. The regular wheel base cars are a direct swap.

    I don't think you'll have to worry about getting rear ended trying to merge into traffic... but you do have to be concious of the engines limitations. If you mistakenly pull out in front of someone barreling down the road , you won't be able to mash the pedal into warp drive to save your ass from doom. But my car will get up to speed as well as most cars on the road.

    A few weeks ago I drove my '50 3,300 miles over 9 days to see the Tulsarama Buried Car event. I drove the car through every kind of traffic and road conditions there are, and never felt like the slow one. I was ususally in the passing lane going around everyone else, long way to go and short time to get there type deal.

    Pete

    [​IMG]
     
  9. jerry
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,396

    jerry
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a friend with a 47 D-24 that we are putting a slant 6/904 into. The flat 6 is plain wore out and the owner wants something more modern.


    jerry
     
  10. Shaggy's Dad
    Joined: Feb 2, 2005
    Posts: 136

    Shaggy's Dad
    Member

    I have even toyed with the idea of putting a mercedes (excuse me, daimler-chrysler) 5 cylinder turbodiesel in it, the ones with the mechanical fuel injection, to get stupid mileage. But I keep coming back to this weight management problem I have with my right foot.
     

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