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Model A door handle removal

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bluedot, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    Boy, do I feel stupud. Simple little problem, and I cannot for the life of me figure this out.
    '30 Model A coupe, trying to remove the outside door handles. I've read on another forum that all I'm supposed to do is remove the two external screws, turn the handle, and pull out. I can even see inside the door to understand the turn-the-handle bit - to rotate the square shaft end to align with the square hole in another internal piece. (Thus if the door was locked, a thief could not just remove the external screws and pull out the handle. The handle must be turned to get it out.)
    All the parts operate as they should, and I've WD-40d all the moving parts. But it still acts like it is mechanically being held in there by something. I even had a helper turn the handle to the proper position while I tried lightly beating on the shaft end from inside with a hammer and punch. Nothing. On either door.
    Some of you A guys could prolly do this in your sleep. What am I missing here?
     
  2. yruhot
    Joined: Dec 17, 2009
    Posts: 329

    yruhot
    Member

    Bluedot, don't feel stupid.lol. I got a 1930 two door sedan and I thought I knew a lot about car until I bought A model A.lol. I joined the local Model A Ford Club of Las Vegas and then I started to learn about the car. It seems they have a lot of the same principals as newer cars but way different applications . Funny thing is I replaced my two outer door handles and had the same problem as you have. But for the life of me I can't really remember how I got them off either. I believe I went throught the same steps as you did and when I got them turned 90 degrees I pulled like the dickens and kind of rocked them back and forth and in a circular motionand I believe the fell out.
    what ever it was I really felt dumb afterwards.lol. Wish I had more of a solution but don't give up. It will fall out sooner than later. OK good Luck YRUHOT
     
  3. 1930ModelA
    Joined: Sep 4, 2008
    Posts: 82

    1930ModelA
    Member

    Remove the two screws from the outside door handle escutcheon. That's the two screws that attach the handle to the outside of the door. Then turn the handle 1/4 turn to the right and pull straight out. You may have to wiggle it a little but it should pull straight out at the quarter turn. The handle shaft is square cut and the square hole in the door lock assembly is rotated 1/4 turn. A groove in the shaft allows the handle to rotate after it's in place.
     
  4. jan bogert
    Joined: Jul 11, 2011
    Posts: 636

    jan bogert
    Member

    on my '31 coupe i believe i took out the screws and turned the handle 1/4 turn and like others pulled like hell rocking them untill they came out JAN. i do believe the turn was clockwise.
     
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  5. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 3,564

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from texas

    and push in on the latch maybe. Think that will unload the spring on an older latch set. maybe
     
  6. rpkiwi
    Joined: Jan 16, 2006
    Posts: 266

    rpkiwi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Truckee CA

    Had the same problem,and with that 1/4 turn and some WD it finally popped.Good Luck
     
  7. djust
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,040

    djust
    Member
    from Oklahoma

    Your probably doing it right they are just a pain in the ass sometimes.
    Even my new ones are tough to get apart.
     
  8. jick
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 367

    jick
    Member
    from london

    I was wondering about this very same thing for my coupe....
    Is it the same for a '28/29?
     
  9. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,437

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    Sometimes the light corrosion on the square shaft makes it a bitch to get it out, and if its not lined up just right it wont budge.

    On one of mine I had to take the screws out of the latching mechanisum to give it some lee way.

    even my new ones with new latches were still a drag
     
  10. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    Thanks fellas - sounds like I'm already doing the right thing. I'll just keep wiggling and rocking, though if I do that any harder, the escutcheons are gonna start dinging the door sheetmetal. Maybe some PB Blaster would do more than WD - I haven't tried the PB on it yet.
     
  11. Toner283
    Joined: Feb 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,224

    Toner283
    Member

    Rust is your enemy here. Remember that this metal has had 80 years to try and fuse itself into one piece. You will probably have luck with the PB blaster. Keep squirting it every day for a week or so and you will have to try not to fall over when it comes out with no major force.
     
  12. 31 5w
    Joined: Aug 6, 2010
    Posts: 77

    31 5w
    Member

    Pushing in slighly on the latch as previously metioned worked for me.
     
  13. mclamped
    Joined: Nov 26, 2011
    Posts: 4

    mclamped
    Member

    Just started a 1930 model a pick up and had no idea how to remove the door handles. Thanks for the help. You guys are the best!!!
     
  14. fred56
    Joined: Jul 27, 2005
    Posts: 55

    fred56
    Member

    Same
     
  15. 51delivery
    Joined: Dec 9, 2007
    Posts: 142

    51delivery
    Member

    Don't feel bad I was taking the hardware off my 1929 4 door a few weks ago and kept trying to rotate the interior door handle to open the door. I felt pretty dumb when I pulled on it and it opened the door
     
  16. motoandy
    Joined: Sep 19, 2007
    Posts: 2,765

    motoandy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from MB, SC

    yes, same set up. Make sure when you put them on for final that it is just that. Easy to chip the paint if you had to get them off. Also plan if you are going to go back with a locking handle or not.
     
  17. jick
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 367

    jick
    Member
    from london

    thanks Fred and MotoAndy...much appreciated.
     
  18. yruhot
    Joined: Dec 17, 2009
    Posts: 329

    yruhot
    Member

    Hi Blue dot,YRUHOT here again. I talked to the Guru at our Model A club about your problem and he showed me a door handle and latch out of the car and like most said turn the handle 90 degrees but what he showed me is that you have to push the door latch approximately half way in and there is an internal latch that releases the Square shaft and it should come out. It might take some working all things to gether and getting the stars to line up.lol. But it made perfect sense when he showed it to me. Hope this helps. yruhot..Doug
     
  19. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    Aha, now that's something I did not know (pushing in the latch halfway). BTW, the handle won't turn 90º - only maybe 50-60º. But that is where the square lines up with the hole. So the latch must be the issue. I will try that this afternoon and report findings.
    Thanks!!
     
  20. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    Update - still no luck. I thought perhaps the halfway latch thing was the missing clue, and then I realized when you turn the handle to line up the squares, the latch is already fully actuated. No way to just push the latch halfway in. And neither handle is budging, even after several PB Blasts over several days. Grrrrrr!!!
     
  21. Tinbasher
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 274

    Tinbasher
    Member

    Last resort, Use heat. They get rusted together.

    The Old Tinbasher
     
  22. firepilot
    Joined: Aug 21, 2008
    Posts: 196

    firepilot
    Member
    1. Utah HAMBers

    I had one take 2 weeks just sprayed it with penetro 90 and worked it every day for 20 minutes or so and one day it came out. Had a ton of rust sanded it clean and put anti seize on it, should come out easy 80 years from now.
     
  23. Pop-Rodder
    Joined: Oct 6, 2011
    Posts: 321

    Pop-Rodder
    Member

    Remove the roof, ( you know you want a roadster anyway ) then you wont need the door handles...problem solved
     
  24. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    Jiminy Christmas, I still haven't gotten them out. I'm in the shop more days than not, and I PB Blast the mechanism and work on removal every time I'm there. Ain't budgin'! If I can figure out how to put some heat on it (Tinbasher's suggestion) without screwing up something, that's next. As much PB Blaster residue as is in there, I'lll prolly set the sucker on fire. Patience, Lord give me patience....
     
  25. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,437

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    check this thread out
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=660618

    what you may be having a problem with is the two tabs ether side of the handle tumbler (the part that has the square hole in it and the tab that also has the square hole in it (the out board tab, one closest to the inside of the door has a square hole in it, that has to line up with the tumbler latch square hole and the square shaft has to be clean and free of rust, or fucked up corners)..if these are tweeked or dont line up right that handle or that square drive of the handle will not come thru that tabs square hole..

    hope that makes sence to you its hard to explane..you may have to get in there and work on the alignment of the tabs either side of the latch paul

    in that thread above it gives you very good pictures of how it all goes togeather
     
  26. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,749

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    The handle turned only 45 degrees, NOT 90 degrees. Dirt, dust, debris build up in the latch and find a natural home on the handle shaft in between the plates.
    All handles have a machined area on the shaft allowing the turn to remove the handle. A good soaking with PB Blaster every day for a day or three and judicious turning and pulling usually get the job done.
     
  27. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    "Usually" is not in this car's vocabulary apparently. Been doing the PB Blaster and judicious turning/pulling since before this thread started - prolly a good 15-20 separate days.
    VRF, thanks for that link and explanation. Very helpful in understanding how everything goes together. I think the parts that are rusted/frozen together are the shaft and the round cylindrical shaped piece approx mid shaft. Everything else seems pretty loosey goosey.
    I'll tell ya one thing - When I see the magic worked by some HAMBers on their projects, it is very humbling to be completely stymied by something so seemingly simple as door handle removal. Drives home the reminder of what an amateur I am, and good test of my attempts to keep from cussing. =:eek:)
     
  28. Probesport
    Joined: Feb 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,060

    Probesport
    Member

    Don't sweat it, I have no idea what I am doing yet I still manage to do it consistently. People are here to help and old cars are all about tribal knowledge, there is no runbook for this. Not knowing what you are doing always leads to adventure :D

    If you don't care about the handles, I say cut them off and deal with the rest of teh stuck bits while they are on your bench and more easily worked. If you care about the handles, it's all about patience, heat and profanity.
     
  29. Bluedot
    Joined: Oct 26, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Bluedot
    Member

    Hooray!!! Yippeedo!!! Yeehaw!!! One handle came out today. One down, one to go. Took about 4 weeks, so at that rate the other one should be out around mid-Feb.
    Just to throw in a little more good news on my slow project, body wood is all installed, starting on the top wood. In between door handle yankin' that is. So overall, it was a good day.
     
  30. Probesport
    Joined: Feb 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,060

    Probesport
    Member

    Congrats, I hate those types of projects. Glad it's 1/2 way over.
     

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