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Macaulay's Molds (Patterns & Coreboxes) Part II

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jive-Bomber, Sep 30, 2010.

  1. Jive-Bomber
    Joined: Aug 21, 2001
    Posts: 2,572

    Jive-Bomber
    MODERATOR
    from Moraga, Ca

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2010
  2. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,106

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    Well, time to start casting some offy motors.
     
  3. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,862

    Retro Jim
    Member

    That was truly an incredible find ! To have been there at the right time and seeing all that history being tossed away like that ! I still can't understand what they were thinking of as the owners or employees were just throwing away so much important racing history into a dumpster like that ! They are all one of a kind pieces of racing history that they could have donated to the racing museum or organization but instead they were throwing them out like yesterdays left over garbage !
    I was very happy to hear that someone was there and was lucky enough to removed all that history from being thrown away and lost forever !
    Do you know if he is ever going to do anything with the molds ? Does he know if he has any special molds of something really rare or what cars and racing teams they were for ? How many molds did he retrieve ?

    Retro Jim
     
  4. SAVAGE
    Joined: May 13, 2002
    Posts: 888

    SAVAGE
    Alliance Vendor

    So Cool.. I want to see that stuff.. Amazing.. thank you for sharing
     
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  5. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,364

    fur biscuit
    Member

    so...let me see...towers, cranks, cases, cam covers...some one needs to build a the CNC program to cut them out. i want 220 Miller/Offy T gow.
     
  6. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 2,858

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    WOW, do you have an inventory of what he has the castings for?? I know some people who have small casting runs done for performance vw heads and blocks that might be a good resource to ask about doing these. would be cool to build one to actually race again too!
     
  7. Rolleiflex
    Joined: Oct 25, 2007
    Posts: 586

    Rolleiflex
    Member

    I totally agree just use a CMM to get all the coordinates into a computer, a little ProE or MasterCam work to produce a CNC program and you'd be off and running.

    I know it'd be costly, but surely with all the aftermarket automotive manufacturing guys out there one of them would want to take it on.
     
  8. gonzoengineer
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 59

    gonzoengineer
    Member

    These pictures make a bit more sense of it -- I'm assuming image 9 is used to make the cores.

    Thanks for the pics, they are great!
     
  9. shmoozo
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 622

    shmoozo
    Member
    from Media, PA

    That "mystery wooden crankshaft" could probably be identified if its dimensions were known.

    :cool:
     
  10. Offy 220
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Offy 220
    Member

    Interesting article! Currently I have an Offenhauser 220 engine at Van Dyne's shop. The block was pressure-tested yesterday and tested OK. Offy 255 and 270 blocks have been reproduced but not the 220. We were discussing if it was cracked or unusable what could we do? The demand for a 220 is not as great as the 255/270 but this is a great find! Glad to know the pattern survived.
     
  11. captainjunk#2
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 3,905

    captainjunk#2
    Member

    those old patterns are just to cooool
     
  12. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,527

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    It looks like the wooden pattern for the crankshaft is for a V8. 90 degree throws.


    Ago
     
  13. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 29,863

    Tman
    Member

    Not as rare as you think! Some very cool old Schwinn tooling became ballast for the dock at the Schwinn families summer retreat in Wisconsin. Also, LOTS of rare Halibrand molds and patterns were chucked into a bonfire on the beach back in the 80s!
     
  14. hasty
    Joined: Jul 5, 2009
    Posts: 1,170

    hasty
    Member

    Again, a really nice thread and a fantastic inside track into a private world.
    Thank you.
     
  15. yhprum
    Joined: Feb 23, 2007
    Posts: 6

    yhprum
    Member
    from Phoenix

    Does anyone know why they would cast a crank? Maybe to establish balancing factor or? Doesnt seem like an offy engine would live long with a cast crankshaft.
    Steve
     
  16. garysgun
    Joined: Dec 8, 2005
    Posts: 265

    garysgun
    Member

    I had a 67 396 Chevelle with a cast iron crank and 4 speed and beat the hell out of it and never any problems. The Offy crank could be cast in steel too. Keep the pictures coming.
     
  17. awesome stuff! thanks for sharing more photos.
     
  18. huntswbow
    Joined: Sep 14, 2010
    Posts: 4

    huntswbow
    Member
    from mi

    That is pretty cool, those old mahogany patterns sure look different from today's standards. Those are truely a work of art to know those guys back then used mylars and templates to make these to dimensions and don't forget a shrink factor of probably .010-.013 thousands per inch.
    If anyone has any questions about foundry process, reverse engineering, pattern building or CAD/CAM let me know. I have been in that game for a fair amount of time. I would be glad to lend a hand. COOL STUFF!!!!
     
  19. KS Fats
    Joined: Aug 19, 2005
    Posts: 83

    KS Fats
    Member

    Even the patterns for the engines are works of art; the craftsmanship that went into them was mirrored in the end product.......fats
     
  20. Offy 220
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Offy 220
    Member

    Bob,
    An individual on the East Coast recently found a Hilligass Sprint car [Miracle Power #1] that Tommy Hinnershitz [sp?] drove. Currently it is powered with a Flathead Ford. The car was originally built with a 220 Offy.

    Finding a 220 is difficult since most if not all were built for sprint cars and last of that series was built around 1953-54. Offy 255/252/270 were used in Championship dirt cars and Indy cars up into the mid 60's.

    The engine is in fairly decent shape but it will need insert bearings [current bearings are poured babbitt], pistons/rings, and a valve job [which is not an easy task, since the cylinders and head are one]. All internal parts will need to be checked for cracks and reuse.

    To make one streetable, a starter/ring gear and flywheel must be made since the engines were made to be 'push started' or as with the larger engines a portable starter engaged in the front of engine was used. Ignition systems are fixed magneto, again requires work to make it 'streetable'. The fuel system is usually Hilborn mechanical injectors, again one can have the system flowed for gasoline or build an manifold and use side-draft carburators. Compression ratio must be lowered to run on pump gas which would require different pistons. Combustion chamber is 'pent-roof' design, similar to the Hemi. Many factors and time are involved but it can be done.

    I know of at least three that are 'streetable'. Louie Senter's 27 T and Bob Anderson's A pickup and the 29 A on 32 rails roadster that my dad and I built. I believe Joe Gemsa built both engines for Senter and Anderson.

    Thanks for your interest.
    Offy 220
     
  21. Offy 220
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Offy 220
    Member

    Steve,

    Not sure why they would cast a crankshaft. When I saw the pic I thought the same. I have 2 spare Offy 220 crankshafts and determined that they were machined from billet. Common problem is that they crack at the fillet or radius, might be the reason for casting. I would believe a forging would definitely be stronger.

    Offy 220
     
  22. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 29,863

    Tman
    Member

    Dummies for mock up and test fit?
     
  23. garysgun
    Joined: Dec 8, 2005
    Posts: 265

    garysgun
    Member

    That is exactly what I was going to say. In fact when building my Harley chopper over 38 years ago I would make a part out of mahogany and quickly shape it into what I wanted then custom fit it then make it out of aluminum or steel. Saved a whole lot of time cutting wood 1st.
    The shop was great & I miss having all the machines ready to go and all set up. Now I need to move piles and boxes to get to the machines.
     
  24. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,527

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    The crankshaft pattern looks like it is for a V8, 90 degree crank throw. All the 4 cyl. motors Ive seen were 180 degree cranks or flat cranks. Some special V8 engines use 180 degree cranks. Ferrari 308,328,348,etc. Cosworth DFV,
    The Offy was complicated to put the crank into . The barrel aluminum crankcase was heated to expand it, then the crank was lowered from the top. The main and rod bearings and caps were installed thru the crankcase windows. Briggs Cunningham tried to road race an offy on gas in the 50s with carbs. The ports were too big for good flat power curve.


    Ago
     
  25. Offy 220
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 249

    Offy 220
    Member

    Was at Van Dyne's shop this afternoon to inspect the Offy 220 engine. I mentioned to him about the cast crankshaft pattern. He said Meyer and Drake [Offenhauser] were trying different methods since they were getting cracks on the fillets and radius, typical with a billet crankshaft, and sometimes through the oil hole toward the fillet. He thought the cast crankshaft was not very common, most if not all use billet cranks.

    Offy 220
     
  26. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,586

    Dale Fairfax
    Member

    They didn't live all that long with billet cranks. One of the commonest failure modes in an Offy was a broken crank. They would have been better off with forged cranks and possibly even cast cranks (assuming the casting was at least as good as the ones in Flathead Fords). Machining all that metal away when making a billet crank cut across all the grain structure of the billet leading to a mass of stress risers.



     
  27. garysgun
    Joined: Dec 8, 2005
    Posts: 265

    garysgun
    Member

    The way the tank crankshafts are done, at an old shop, is they are steel forged into shape quit close to the size then they are machined then heat treated to normalize the metallic structure, then ground to final size. This way all the stress factors are taken out.
     
  28. gearguy
    Joined: Jan 27, 2010
    Posts: 283

    gearguy
    Member

    Many of the Miller and Offenhauser drawings have been preserved and are available for study. Leo Goosen, engineer and draftsman for both, was a true artist.
    Check out Gordon Elliiot White's books or Google either Miller or Offenhauser for links to the drawing archive.
    A truly amazing heritage of engine design. Thanks to the guy who saved the patterns.

    Chuck Schultz
    Winfield, Illinois
     
  29. floydjer
    Joined: Feb 4, 2010
    Posts: 213

    floydjer
    BANNED

  30. ronjean
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 5

    ronjean
    Member
    from wi.

    Looking at the pic's was really nice.I was a patternmaker for thirty years served my apprenticeship in wood and then went into metal. when ever i see a Detroit Diesel engine i look at the exhaust manifolds on them Another patternmaker and i made the original patterns and core boxes for them and i see they have not changed .
     

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