Register now to get rid of these ads!
  1. TJJ3
    Hey Fellas, excuse the spam... But, The Jalopy Journal #3 is now available for consumption and well... We are really proud of it. If you have a moment, click here to check it out. If you already have yours or if you are tired of seeing this notification, just click the little 'x' on the top right hand corner of this box and you are done.


Little O/T Smokey Yunick adiabatic Fiero?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hobbyjp, May 10, 2007.

  1. hobbyjp
    Joined: Mar 14, 2006
    Posts: 310

    from socal

    I was reading an article today that said Smokey built a fiero with an adiabatic engine(No gain or loss of heat). Supposedly the engine had 150 hp and the car did something like 5 sec 1/4 miles and got 50 miles to the gallon. I did some googling and found little info on this. Can anyone add to this? Did this thing really exist? Here is a patent number patent #4,862,859
    and there was an article in 1983 Popular Science. I havent been able to find the artcle yet.
  2. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 19,982

    Bruce Lancaster

  3. lincolnlog
    Joined: Feb 25, 2007
    Posts: 179

    from Arizona

    that would mean that the engine was 100% efficient. Highly doubtful.
  4. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,208


    That that would defy physics as we know them. This smacks of "urban legend".
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Revhead
    Joined: Mar 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,019

    from Dallas, TX

    I don't know how 150 HP would get much of anything to do 5 second 1/4 miles. 150 HP is 150 HP no matter how it is generated. The fiero would have to weigh 100 pounds or something.
  6. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 5,615


    Not to change the subject, but did you see the Hemming's blog the other day about the '59 Opel that got 376MPG with super heated fuel? IS it fact?
  7. Thirdyfivepickup
    Joined: Nov 5, 2002
    Posts: 6,082


    I googled it and found a bunch of info. I even figured out how to pronounce it.
  8. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,095


    i remember reading or seeing something about it on tv.....didn't hear anything about the super sonic 1/4 mile stuff.....but the rest sounds familiar....:D ...the technology is out there......big business is buying it up ....and putting it on the shelf....never to be seen again......:eek: brandon
  9. ProEnfo
    Joined: Sep 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,498

    from Motown

    Just for comparison, in 1983 Fuel Funny Cars were runnng high 5's / low 6's, probably didn't get 50 MPG though.... :eek: sounds like an urban myth :D

  10. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 19,982

    Bruce Lancaster

    I don't think it was ever hyped as fast--I saw the magazine article mentioned, and claims made involved economy. Tech was very limited and unclear in what I read...I seem to remember heated intake, lots of insulation, and a turb that was described as for fuel vaporization rather than boost.
  11. Foul
    Joined: Mar 25, 2002
    Posts: 642


  12. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,533

    from Garner, NC

    No Fiero is right...

    It was slower but the 150hp and 50mpg was right, by the way I believe it was a 2 cylinder...
  13. It's in Smokey's last book,and explains how it worked in plain english.
  14. SimonSez
    Joined: Jul 1, 2001
    Posts: 1,526


    Pretty sure it was a Fiero. I have an article in Hot Rod from sometime in the eighties about it, but it is stored away at the moment.

    The 5 second 1/4 mile part is bullshit though.

    Did a search and found this web site with some more info, taken from a Swedish Hot Rod magazine article ...
  15. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 5,615


    Maybe the 5 second part was 60 feet times!
  16. Paul Y
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 631

    Paul Y

    Remember reading about this in Hot Rod, probably sometime in the mid 80's. Sort of wondered what had happened to the technology. Guess it must be stored somewhere along with the machine that turns water into Petrol and grass into gold....

  17. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,095


    might have been 0 to 60..... :rolleyes: :D brandon
  18. bwiencek
    Joined: Aug 30, 2005
    Posts: 316


    I'm thinking it's got to get everything really really hot for it all to work well enough to lean out and burn just vapors - probably a hot or cold start problem and not enough R&D into controlling emissions during these times with the setup he had - nothing a cold start injector and a computer probably couldn't cure... Still think it would take 15-20 minutes of run time to get hot and be 'efficent'...
  19. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 11,689

    from Owasso, Ok

    ...sounds like a Stanley Steamer...
  20. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 958

    Relic Stew
    from Wisconsin

    The "secret" of that engine is how to avoid detonation at ~300°+ coolant temps. The hotter an engine runs, the more efficient it is. The first problem is the low density of hot intake mixture. That is cured with the turbo. The tricky one is keeping that hot mixture from igniting itself.

    The patent just shows a carb heated by engine coolant, and the intake manifold heated by exhaust. A turbo to keep the density high enough to make usable power. Nothing ground breaking there.

    It's not really about "running on vapors" as all gas engines run on vapors. Liquid fuel doesn't burn, it must be vaporized and mixed with oxygen. Thats why a cold carb without a choke or a dirty injector runs poorly. The fuel is in droplets instead of vapors. The efficiency is from not rejecting as much heat out of the engine. A typical engine converts about 1/3 of the fuel to road power, the rest is rejected as heat from the radiator and exhaust. If the engine rejects less heat ( by running hotter) more power goes to the road. Again, the trick is to keep the engine from self destructing while running that hot.
  21. Relic Stew
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 958

    Relic Stew
    from Wisconsin

    Found a tidbit in the patent:
    "The crankshaft stroke and piston rod length are selected so that the piston remains within .001" of top-dead-center (TDC) for at least 13° of crankshaft rotation."
    Another part mentions offsetting the piston pin .060" to further increase piston dwell.

    A long rod motor is a known method to reduce detonation. Also minimal quench clearance, and as compact a combustion chamber as possible. Engines are being built with a very small chamber, and a matching dish chamber in the piston. This keeps the flame travel as short as possible. Another trick is a reverse flow cooling system, the coolant goes from the radiator to the heads, then the block. This requires 100% propylene glycol coolant, so there are no steam pockets in the heads.
  22. tdoty
    Joined: Jun 21, 2006
    Posts: 820


    That wasn't a was a "homogenizer". AFAIK, GM bought all the rights to that, and shelved it for various reasons..............saying that it was primarily because the system didn't work reliably enough for their purposes.

    Tim F.
  23. publicenemy1925
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 3,189

    from OKC, OK

    Sounds like a job for THE MYTHBUSTERS!
  24. junior 1957
    Joined: Dec 10, 2006
    Posts: 190

    junior 1957

    wasn't that engine two cylinders sliced off a buick v6? think he put one in a dodge omni also.
  25. That was back before modern EFI.

    I doubt it would pass modern smog,
    and 100,000 mile reliability requirements.
  26. Gator
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,009


    My friend has that car, along with a ton of other Smokey Yunick stuff, expirimental tires, pistons, parts from the original Chevy big block 'mystery motor', some of the Indy car stuff.

    It still runs and drives, he had it at a show in Huntsville Al. last month.

    PM me if you want, I can put you in touch with him.

    Here's a recent article from a local paper.

    Smokey Yunick Fiero
  27. Shifty Shifterton
    Joined: Oct 1, 2006
    Posts: 4,967

    Shifty Shifterton

    Have heard safety concerns with that much heated fuel. There are 1000 different ways to circumvent a patent, if the technology worked, somebody, somewhere in the world, would be using it.
  28. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,208


    Sounds liek something that needs to be researched again. That article claims he let hte patents expire making it a potentially unpatented technology.

    Ugly as all hell, but
  29. Brewton
    Joined: Jun 24, 2005
    Posts: 884


    This car was on Horsepower TV a couple of months ago. Pretty amazing stuff.
  30. Probably close to that number, an Econoline running on superheated gas (just run the fuel line through the exhaust manifold) made it from LA to SF on one tank that way, and then back on another. The carb had to be thrown away after that, but it worked.

    Do a little research on Cadillac gasoline powered tanks in WWII. and find out why our tanks had a superior range to the German tanks.

    If you find a car with gas in the tank from before WWII, and it that tank was tightly sealed, the gas is probably still good.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!


Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.