Projects Kinmont brakes (thinking of taking the bull by the horns)

Ok So I have wanted a set of kinmonts for the last 12 or so years, But prices like $10-12K have kept me from having them. I talked to Bob wilson back in 08 and again in 2010 and was just going to wait for him to get this project done. Not sure what the hold up is, But I am noticing more and more grey hairs as each year passes, So I am thinking of taking the Bull by the horns and doing this myself. With the help of some key guys right here on this forum.....Bottomline for me is I work everyday and have 5 kids, So spending 10-12K on a set is not going to happen, but even if I was rich, I still do not think I would pay 10-12K for brakes that did not work all that well to begin with, I just don't think I could get my head around it. My hats of to the guys that do, But it is just not me......Anyhow I am not interested in the johnson's version as too me they look nothing like the real thing, I think they look cool, But a far cry from kinmonts. For me I only want a pair for the front, As because of what I have heard about them not working super well, I plan to run 56 buick Drum brakes in the rear. If I decide to do this I only plan to do a smalll run of about a dozen sets, As I do not think these are going to fly off the shelfs. Point of doing this project is So that the average working hotrodder can have Kinmonts on his car if he wants. I realize they won't be originals. But Niether Are the Coker Tires, Or the rodsville (halibrand look alike V8 quickchange) Or that Brookville 32 roadster that alot of us have.......Anyhow I am looking to see Who would be interested in a set, (Meaning a pair of fronts).....While I know it is still pricey I was hoping to keep cost down to around $2K for a set. let me know what you think. And please for the drama seekers......Move on to the next post!...thank you

 

I would want to see what they looked like but at 2K I would be interested.

 

That would be cool as hell. I'm of the "lurking, but parts gathering" crowd. I see my pile growing, and would be interested for sure. Quality of course, being key. Not an easy deal as a developer.......or they would already be done. Hat's off to you if you make it. I am positive alot more than a dozen would be sold. So hang on to your own hat then.....you could be the riot director, for sure. Take the walls !!! Kinmonts are in there!

 

I understand, They will be just like the originals, with the numbers even casted in them.....I am not planing on changing anything.

 

Subscribed, I've read the post about the Johnson Kinmounts and would be interested to see how these turn out.

 

I actually have been thinking about this for about a year, And have Done alot of research in my spare time. One of the biggest problems I have encountered Is patterns. Because My casting and machine guys are ready to go on this.....It seems that the Guys that can afford and have these brakes, Don't want them reproduced,...I am not trying to devalue there high dollar Bragging right toys.....As their's will always be originals. I am just trying to have period correct disk brakes on my car, And Not have to tell my daughter that she can't Go to College because Daddy wanted Kinmonts.....

 

I think you would have no problem selling a dozen sets at a $2000 price point, however my gut is that you'd need to sell more than that to make a decent return on your investment and labor. Honestly, when you get buyers approaching you North of your initial run, I believe it would be tough to NOT produce additional units for sale as the ROI will eventually be met and the profit stage will kick into a much higher gear with each additional sale.

It's a whole side subject, however, this brings up my feelings or "opinion" on repop vintage and rare speed parts as a whole. While it's awesome to be able to grab these types of (brand new) parts for your build at an easy to acquire and reasonable price, it somehow cheapens and softens the blow to the "wow factor" of occasionally seeing a Rod with some rare vintage jewelry.
If I walk through a show and eventually start to see every 5th or 6th Deuce with repop Kinmonts, Duvall windshields, E&J headlights, Hildebrandt valve covers and Winter grille shells they'll start to look less "outstanding" and more "bellybutton"...

 

Cowtown, You might conceder a limited parts run, some where beyond the break even point.
I think HR ta Hell, pretty well hit the point about trying mass producing this brake setup.

..........................Jack

 

If you make them, make them exact, and sell individual parts to guys with incomplete sets.

Also, I can tell you that after you sell out your "limited run" you will have more guys than before who want some.

 

We were just talking about this yesterday. Someone is repoping these already to the tune of 2.2K. My friend Ron Ford in Canada just bought a pair for his "T". I do not have the info on who or where.

 

Clone, reproduction, tribute, copy, are all FAKE, not the real thing. Plastic bodies, premade frames and T-5 transmissions are all non-traditional......

 

I hate fakes. Everything fake. My buds in the '50s were the read deal, older than me, but the REAL racers.
Guys I know now are 'into it', but they're not the REAL guys. So, I guess I'll have to cut 'em loose.

 

Ricks Garage, did you read the OP's first post, specificaly the last line?

I agree with alchemy, they need to be made EXACTLY like the originals, if so, you will certainly sell misc. parts to those who need a couple pieces. As for becoming ho hum, they repop 32 bodies and rails, are the originals less attractive? There just isn't enough supply for the demand anymore. I applaud those who step up to do this type of thing, even if it is a break even deal, atleast you have the part/item you needed for your own project.

 

There are patent and copyright laws to deal with if you are going to make a "copy" of something to sell.
117harv, you are missing the point of a traditional build using original parts. If a specific part is not available you use an alternative from a different vehicle, that is what hot rodding is all about. You want it to be like the Chrome Goddesses where you can call someone and order a part and bolt it on and roll it up on your trailer.

 

It's obvious that your reading comprehension is very poor to non existent.
Read the last line of the first post of this thread.
And Harv never missed a thing. If you look at his work it is obvious that he knows exactly what hot rodding is all about.
Cowtown,
As far as a set of these brakes go I would not be interested because I am going for function (discs) over appearance.
I do think that it's cool that you want to take something like this on.

 

If you want them that bad, then I am sure you could sell the initial production and more. JHRS Kinmont looking brakes seem to be showing up on lots of cars today and they do what they are supposed to do - stop the car. Having the look you desire with and inadequate set of brakes doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps you have the secret for improving them, but then that would not be an exact copy would it? I have a friend who paid the $12K for a set and took them off because he couldn't make them work properly to stop his flathead powered 3 window. I also have another friend who made them work (sort of) on his Deuce sedan. I think Ken Gross has them on his roadster and seems to be able to stop when required. My point is maybe a good set of instructions included with your product would make selling them easier. Perhaps you could have the project funded by taking real deposits up front (in escrow) to those who are interested. I t seems someone was doing that for the Buick drums a few months ago.

Reproduction Ardun heads and aluminum flathead blocks are also showing up in masses on the West Coast after some investors thought there was a market. Could real Kinmonts be next? I think you would need to rethink your price point to recover your initial run. I admire your attitude toward producing your dream brakes. Good Luck!

 

There were some kinmonts, enough to do a all four corners on a car less wheel cylinders for 8k at LARS this year. Don't know if they sold but I Saw a few people looking at them. Using new technology to make patterns, you should be able to cut some of your costs down. I am looking forward to seeing the progress.

 

Some one have a pic of all the peices to the Kinmonts? There is an actuating wish bone looking part [maybe several, memory??] that I thought was rather filmsy..Ardun repros I heard of but whos got the FH alum blocks?

 

www.johnsonshotrodshop.com

 

Did you read the OP's first post at all?

 

That is what I never understood. To reinvent with todays technology. Same looks.....better form, and function. You would think this would be some pattern makers holy grail....so to speak. There are never enough around to have, and surely....someone could make them work better then originals......they definitely had their issues. Am I talking to myself again here..........

 

Man very few here in hamb land read anything.

 

There seems to be a lot of resistance on the basis of originality.
Just suppose for a moment the OP bought the rights to name and design? We already know that he intends to build exact reproductions. It'd be like the Kinmount company was reborn.

At the least, it'd be like somebody found a dozen sets of front Kinmonts in a warehouse and put them on the market at a fraction of market value. Having a hard time seeing a downside to this.

 

Yes I did read it I was just posting the link so folks could compare. Take a chill pill Jezzzzzzzzzzz

 

I like the idea and was waiting on Wilson Welding as I did not want to make the same thing as someone else. I think he has had enough time. If you listen to everyone here on the HAMB you will never do anything. I am having hub caps cast and have other items in the pipe. I had to invest in my own ideas to bring them to market and hope it will pay off in the end. If you want to do it go for it no matter what the naysayers say. Jim Ford

 

Can someone start whittling today.......please?

 

I been getting alot of interest since posting this.......However Someone brought up somthing That never even crossed my mind. See I assume that most guys who are building a car themselfs are competent people, But that is not always the case....Doing this for myself is one thing, But If I sold complete brakes to the public, And Some Clown who don't have a clue, Bought them and put them on his car Not having any idea of how they work or how to set them up.....If he got hurt because of this In todays world Him and his lawyers could come after everything I got!.....Maybe I need to rethink things a bit.......Any ideas around being liable??

 

Patent date would have to be circa' 1940 ish. If it were exact duplicates, you would only be providing service parts for a previously designed system. As long as your tensile strengths, and tolerances are close to original specs, I would say the designer would have to be the one culpable....if proven faulty. As far as I know, there is no recognized entity or subsidiary of Kinmont that still exists.......so I am not so sure anyone could really be liable. How could you guarantee your pieces fall within Kinmonts original specs, though? That may be just as tricky.

 

There you go- no "complete brake kits" but every part.

On a side note here- is that design counting on the spindle nut threads to hold all of the force applied to disk ?