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History Jag IRS History

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Richard D, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. I know they came out in '61. I figure the show car guys started putting them in as soon as the first '61 XKE got wrecked. Anyone got documentation on early swaps?
     
  2. I first saw them mentioned in relation to hot rods in Rod & Custom magazine with an installation by Jerry Kugel in the mid-late 60's.........dunno if that helps.........andyd
     
  3. Kona Cruisers
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 1,078

    Kona Cruisers
    Member

    Your Dad 100% will not care if the truck isn't "period" perfect! Build the truck and complete it!

    almost 100% that Jag IFS/IRS isn't traditional for an F1. I can see Tbuckets and other Highboys, but have no info to back me up.
     
  4. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    First time I remember seeing a jag rear in a '53-'56 F100(assuming that what we are talking about here) was around 1973. Quite a bit earlier than that in hot rods, like T's and A's...
     

  5. I was just wondering who did it first, for history's sake. I think I want to do one on the T. I found some narrowed half shafts and lower control arms.
     
  6. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    IIRC Ted Brown put one in a customers '32 in '68?? Dont think it was THE first, but maybe one of the first. I have Teds email, I could ask him...
     
  7. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    You know, I really hope and pray that just because a hot rod doesn't fit the HAMB definition, that would stop anyone from building it! It sure as hell isn't gonna stop me from building a circa 1967 T-bucket! Why not do a period-correct, circa '68/'69 build, and chronicle it on dogfight?? Bet if you did, Chip would join up over there!
     
  8. Just like to see some pictures of very early setups, and some info for the history factor.
     
  9. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I have a funny idea that there might be a RP with one in Car Craft around '66/'67, I'll see if I can find that...
     
  10. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I haven't looked yet, but the more I think about it, the RP I mentioned may have been a Car Craft Top Ten car in '66. I will look it up when I have time.
     
  11. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    So, then, since engine swaps are traditional, LS-1s are traditional, right? I mean, since modifying cars is "traditional" then really, anything goes, right? Changing wheels is "traditional" the earliest hot rods had kelsey hayes wires, so if we follow your line of "reasoning" then 20" billet wheels are "traditional" right? The earliest hot rodders made manifolds and added more carbs, so EFI is "traditional" right? Seems to me, by your line of "reasoning" its all "traditional", correct??

    Never ceases to amaze me how many of the members on here are just really out to destroy whatever the HAMB is supposed to be about. You know, maybe that Stalin guy was on to something...
     
    hrm2k likes this.
  12. It is not my intention to destroy anything. The poster asked for history and photos and that is what I gave. I have removed my post and the stage is yours.
     
  13. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    thats ok, I quoted it, so its still there.
     
  14. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,192

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    I do not know much about what is and what isn't Traditional, All I know is what I think is cool and I could give a shit what anyone else thinks!!....I guess it depends on who's tradition we are talking about...I wasn't born until 1974, But one thing I can tell you for sure is Using a Jag under a hot rod around my house was about as traditional as one could get...My Dad Loved them and still uses them today in his personal builds.....We have one in our 1929 model A pickup that has more miles on it than I care to count. We had it at a Show one time and some ass clown was saying how cool the truck looked, (Unaware that I owned it) He said why would the builder ruin it by putting the Jag rearend under it. I told him Because I wanted the Jag rearend under it, And I did not know I needed his permission before I built it. He got pissed and him and his wife walked off and got into their 90 chevy truck with a roll pan and corvette tailights and left. Dumbass did not even have a hot rod, Just a piece of shit 91 chevy pickup...And he has the nerve to tell me whats right and wrong about my hot rod pickup that has been in 2 magazines. Bottomline is don't worry what others think, Build your car or truck the way you want it and you will be happy. I build my cars for me, And if others like them Then good!..if they don't then it is still Good!...Just my 2 cents
     
    spiffy1937 likes this.
  15. Cowtown Speed Shop
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,192

    Cowtown Speed Shop
    Member
    from KC

    George,
    One thing is for sure, The hamb is a Great place, However when you have so many guys who share the same passion for old cars and history there are bound to be disagreements. Me, I like alot of old cars, My hotrods date 1948 and older, Thats just me!....But the hamb goes clear up to 1965, With a range that wide (lumping a 1965 buick in with a 1932 ford) I think guys will always argue about something.
     
  16. The OP asked for history so I have to assume he is considering/building to fit a certain period, so telling him it doesn't matter, put it in there anyway just doesn't cut it.
    The only knowledge I have that may be helpful is: sometime about 64 I built a model of a T bucket that had a Jag IRS. It was a large scale model, (1/8? scale) the body molded in red and I believe either Monogram or Lindberg. If someone knows of this model and can pinpoint a time it was available, it might help pin down the year the original car was built.
    Acording to wikipedia 1961 was the first jag IRS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_independent_rear_suspension
     
  17. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,026

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Don Tognotti's King T won AMBR in 1964. The IRS isn't Jaguar but scratchbuilt around a Chevy centre, but it follows the Jaguar pattern very closely. I can't see if it has separate upper control arms, though, or uses the drive shafts like the Jag does. It does give an idea of where people's heads were going (and presumably had been going for a while). Compare what was happening in road racing around 1960.
    [​IMG]
    http://www.hotrod.com/hotroddeluxe/1307_gene_winfield/photo_13.html
     
  18. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,045

    rooman
    Member

    The E type WAS the first Jag with IRS. At the time that it was introduced the small sedan was the Mk2 and it had a live axle rear. The full size sedan got the IRS next (Mk 10) and then the Mk 2 was replaced by the 3.8 S (with the independent rear) which was then renamed 420 (when the Mk 10 became the 420G).
    All of the Jag independent rears up until the introduction of the XJ40 series of the XJ6 sedan in 1986 are the same apart from track width.
    The sedan IFS is totally different to that of the E type as it is attached to a removable cross member and the small sedan (Mk1 and 2/3.8S/420) is different to the big car (Mk10/420G).

    As for the first hot rod to have Jag suspension, I have memories of an orange Model A roadster pickup that I think was from NorCal being featured in Hot Rod. As this was over 45 years ago and I have typical old guy CRS I am not sure if this was the first documented Jag install. The Jag stuff I can remember as my dad had a series of them starting with a Mk VII and I currently own 6 of them (counting the parts cars)

    Roo
     
  19. First Jag install, I remember seeing is a '29 roadster pick-up from the Bay Area Roadsters, probably in '67/'68. Didn't seem very mainstream until that era, at least in magazine coverage.
     
  20. First time I recall seeing a Jag rear axle it was under a beautiful black 31 Ford Vicky in the fall of 1973 on the way to the outlaw run in Gatlinburg,Tennessee.

    The day was cool & crisp,there was the faint smell of wood smoke in the air and the fall leaves were swirling around and up ahead pulling out from a over look the Vicky with that chrome rear axle that was mesmerizing with the sunlight through the trees was flickering of the turning axles.

    I fell in love with that look and the car has always stuck in the back of my mind..for the time the car was nice as any I had ever seen. HRP
     
    falcongeorge and lothiandon1940 like this.
  21. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Rooman, Thank you for the correction. I have deleted my erroneous post. :oops:
     
  22. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    early 70s with the T bucket craze. I did a couple for friends in the 70s One a 37 Chevy coupe that had been a hotrod for years!! Total Performance made lots of stuff for the E type rear. A weld on wheel hub so that a Chevy wheel could be used on the knock off hubs. The sedans all came set up with Chevy bolt pattern. The streetrodders that I did them for loved them. Nice ride. I was into hotrods then too so I never did one for myself. Although it was 30 some years ago I don't consider them old hotrod technology. I remember a guy that made his own 1/2 shafts out of hexagonal tubing so that it twinkled in the sun light as it spun going down the road.
     
  23. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    There was another show car at the same time with a fabbed IRS, but I cant remeber which one. I will root through my circa 1966 Car Crafts in the next hour or so, and see if I can find the RP I'm thinking of, and confirm whether it has a jag rear in it.
    When some guy ASKS if something is period-correct, and some guy feels the need to make an anti-traditional rant, then I really gotta assume hes trying to "make a convert". And cowtown, I love O/T non-traditional cars too. I own two, and my screen name comes from one of them. I just dont talk about them here. Thats how it works. I talk about my '66 Chevy II on a Chevy II forum, and I talk about my '67 Falcon on a Falcon/Comet forum. Here, I talk about traditional hot rods.
    It really blows my mind how many guys belong to the HAMB, but really hate and resent the whole traditional hot rod thing. Maybe I should join a knitting forum, and rant about how stupid knitting is...
     
  24. Classic "George"! I know I can build my car however I want, that is not in question. I just want a history lesson. I hold history sacred, and feel it should be preserved.
     
  25. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Just came to me. The other car I was thinking of with a fabbed irs was Cotton Werksmans T.Couple years later. Sorry I called it a show car.
     
  26. Also, anyone remember a magazine article(maybe it was spread over several issues?) that had all you could want to know about Jag suspension? I used to have it but now I'm stumped.
     
  27. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And thats why whenever I see a thread with your name on it, I open it . hugs and kisses, hugs and kisses...:D
    It always blows my mind that the "build it your way" crowd never seems to consider that for some of us, "period correct" IS our way!!
     
  28. ..............................Damn Danny, that's almost poetic, you old romantic you.:)
     
    HOTRODPRIMER and falcongeorge like this.
  29. George, you are the wind beneath my wings...
     
  30. Hellfish
    Joined: Jun 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,626

    Hellfish
    Member

    Roo, I think the 3.8s/Mk2 S-type (1963-68) was sold alongside the Mk2 (1959-67) as kind of a higher trim level... better styling, performance, etc. It lay somewhere between the mk2 and the mkX (1961-70).
     

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