Projects International KB 7" chop

I have samples of the studs I am going to use for the front disc brake adapter (see above posts) I am not sure that the larger stud will work yet but it is the closest to fitting the size of the hole in the stock hub, but its shoulder is 5/8" long and might not let the lug nut tighten on the wheel. One would think that out of 345 different Dorman studs you could find one that works perfectly.

The small stud will be used to hold the rotor to the adapter, it is 3/8" x 24. The large stud will hold the adapter to the back side of the wide five hub it is 1/2" x 20 with a 0.583 knurl diameter and a 5/8" shoulder (that is measured to the threads) a 1/2" shoulder would work for sure. There are two sizes of studs on early Fords that I found so far 0.56 for the early ones and 0.62 for the 41-48.

I cleared off my frame table today and laid the 2" x 3" box tube for the frame rails on it. Set a Model A front end on and spent the next 3 hrs measuring and planning the frame out. I am still not totally happy with how it is laying out, but I will win in the end.

 

Went to the machine shop today to test fit the stud and the shoulder is too long not allowing the lug nut to tighten against the wheel. Redesigned the adapter a bit and worked out all the details of the kit except the caliper bracket which I will do once I get the prototype adapters and rotors mounted to the hub and axle.

 

Really nice work on the cab, outstanding innovation and engineering, I too agree that many of us gearheads that have had seemingly natural talents were infact blessed that way by our creator and finally congrats on stepping up to the plate and joining the alliance, Ryan gives us the best website ever but I am sure costs a lot to operate!

 

I'm watching, good job, I like it.

 

Got some dreaded work done today. I salvage early Ford stuff wherever I can find it. I have salvaged at least 5 front axles out of trailers in the last couple of years. They usually have the spindles locked solid in some way or another. Today I extricated a set of 37 spindles that had been welded to the axle along with bent steering arms welded as well. That is why that axle still had its spindles on it, so today I went and got my torch set back from fastrnu and proceeded with the surgery.

Here are some pics of the process. As can be seen by the first four pics they didn't want it to move and they got creative bending the steering arms.
After removing the king pin bolts I attempted to heat the axle and drive the king pins out to no avail. The next tactic was to cut the bearings out with the torch and I also cut the steering arms off as they were unusable anyway.

 

More torch work. The next step was to precisely cut the vertical welds on either side of the axle. This was done by heating until it was ready to cut and then use a light trigger on the oxygen to blow away the weld without damaging the adjacent spindle and axle.
After cutting the welds I tapped the spindle to make sure it was free to move and then cut the king pin out of the 1/2" gap left by the bearing being sure to create a sizeable gap with out damaging the surrounding area. I cut the top off the king pin and then drove the spindle down creating a gap on the top side.

The next step was to cut the king pin in the gap and after this the spindle fell right off. All that was left to do is drive the short pieces out of the spindle and the longer piece out of the axle if I need to use it but for now all I needed was the spindles.

 

After doing a lot of measuring I decided to make the frame rails 33" wide at the outside under the cab and taper it to the front from the front cab mount. I am using an undropped model A axle with 37 spindles and split 46-48 front bones. I will keep the bones parallel to the width of the A axle and use tie rod ends to attach it to the frame at the back. I will need to change the angle of the spring perch on the front of the bones and make it the same width as the A perch, then I will use an A spring attached ahead of the axle.

The frame will go under the axle and have a cross member directly under the spring and some sort of mount that will attach to the bottom of the spring. The frame rails are 2"x3"x3/16" wall box tube They will be 6" off the ground when it is finished. Here are a couple mockup pics. I will try to make more progress tomorrow after church.

 

Did a bit more mockup, put a wheel and tire on along with setting the hood in place albeit about 10" too low. I was just trying to get the front edge of the tires to be close to inline with the front of the grill and see how the front suspension was going to work out in relationship to the grill.
I have been looking into alternative ways to deal with a panhard rod or some way of locating the front axle. I don't really like the stock one that would be coming out of the side of the grill. My front cross member will have about a 7" piece of box tube going from the center of it to the bottom of the spring. I was thinking about putting a slider inside with a large bolt going through it and a slot in the vertical mount and attaching it to the axle to center it as it travels up and down. Any thoughts on this type of setup or has anyone seen or done something similar to this?

 

I think I've seen something like it somewhere on the internet for the front axle and on the back axle of some old race cars of some sort.

 

You can make it as complicated as you want, but short shackles on the Model A spring should work fine without a panhard rod. That's how they came from the factory.

 

The A steering was fore and aft, I am going to cross steer it or I wouldn't worry about it either. I have driven cross steer cars without a panhard bar and it is less than stellar with a wandery feeling. I hope to take it through its paces at the local road course. That is also why I am keeping the spring fairly high for a better roll center.

 

I agree. You have a great eye for what looks good.

 

You could mount one end of the spring without a shackle and let the spring locate the axle.

 

I have too but also cant remember where.

 

I picked up a 40's steering box/column with steering wheel, the length is about perfect to fit the front axle from where the steering wheel sits in the truck. I will get some pics of it to see what I have as to year and model it is.

 

I am guessing this column came out of a 46-48 Ford or Mercury. Does anyone have a guess or know what it is for sure? It looks like it was designed for turn signals but there is no mechanism and the place where the handle would be has a little sheet metal block off plate on it.

 

Does anyone know the differences between 46-48 Ford and Mercury steering columns?

 

I went to Jantz Engineering today and solidified the details of narrowing the 8" rear end. Now I need to get in touch with Mechanical Specialties and have them water jet a couple of blanks to make the axle bearing ends out of. The axle bearing retainers will also serve as the caliper brackets. The end of the axle that sticks out and centers the brake drum and wheel will need to be shortened to about an 1/8". A button adapter that fits the axle stub on the inside and the rotor on the outside. It has a raised area in the on the outer end that fits in the back of the u-joint flange.

 

Yep. I used this system, which I've always called a "Spenser fork" when I redid the steering on our Bonneville car. Unfortunately, I cannot find a picture of how Doane did it right now. In my version, I mounted a bearing bolted to a bung in the tube axle which rides in a vertical "track" attached to the chassis. The driver says it works "just fine" at up to 265mph (so far). Plenty of ways to acommodate this style of locating the axle in the horizontal plane.

vic

 

I like it thank you for posting the picture of it and congrads on the 265mph.

 

Thanks. Still a ways to go to get where we'd like to be.

I am enjoying all of your current threads. I'm certain that you'll figure out a well designed and built solution for your build.

vic

 

This car was inspirational to me in my formative years of chopping and modifying model cars. I even built something similar to it out of parts and pieces. It is also part of the inspiration for my International build.

 

To celebrate Halloween last night I turned all the lights off in the house and went out in the garage. I got a lot of measurements done for calculating where to bend the frame rails but am still trying to come up with an elegant rear end mount. I want it to be narrow and minimalistic because the rear spring is transverse and all I really need to do is support it and the center section of the differential. There are also shock mounts to consider. Since I am using a model T rear spring I should make a kick up in the rear that is 22" wide to match the T cross member. This would also make a place for my fuel tank to mount on top between the rear axle and the cab.

I also need to incorporate inboard lower control rod pickup points. Since the spring is carrying the weight the differential mount only has to deal with torque of the rear which is a tension and compression force. Triangulated simplicity is the way to go I think. Well time to go back out there and do some more measuring before church.

 

here are some pics of the frame and front end in mock up. I will need to heat and bent the spring hangers.
The steering box mount will be quite tall

The column still needs to go up an inch at the column drop.

 

I did a line drawing of the perimeter of the frame in my cad program to see what the angle of the front taper would be. It turns out that with the frame rails at 32" at the outside and the front cross member at 18" and sitting 36" forward of the point where the angle starts gives it an 11 degree angle. That means that I need to pie cut the angle at 5.5 degrees both directions. At the front of the tapered area to the front cross member will have the cuts at 39.5 degrees on both pieces.

If you add both cuts together 39.5 and 5.5 you end up with 45 degrees which is the angle you would cut to get a 90 degree joint. In order for the corners to be 36" from each other in a straight line the length of the angled part needs to be longer and in this case it needs to be 36 11/16" at the outside of the joints. Since I am using box tube the angle can be cut and one of the pieces turned over for some cutting and material savings. Well enough math lessons, I am going out to the shop to make some cuts.

 

I got all the angles cut on the front section of frame and ready to tack weld together. I set all the frontend parts together on it for mock up and found that I had to lower the axle a bit. I figured out where the end of the pitman arm will be and set the column in place at close to the right height. As far as I can tell the column is out of a 46-48 Mercury that has a 4" longer wheel base that the Ford 114vs118. This added length is also in the column and places the column drop directly under the dash in the International cab. I have been out of town all weekend and will get pics when I get back.

 

I have to admit, when I first started watching this and I saw the top completely cut off to the top of the doors, I thought this is where a lot of chop top projects end! The owner loses interest and they then sit around, get passed around, and some go to the scrap pile which is a waste. Then there are metal artists like you sir, who has the vision and skill to create a very beautiful proportional masterpiece! Great job, I like it!

 

Thanks for the complement. I have seen the ruination of a lot of old cars from people who don't have the skills, vision, or ambition to see it through to the end.

 

Finally got some more pics loaded and resized so here goes. I did a simple CAD line drawing and figured out the angle if the front part of the frame. It is 11 degrees. Divide it by 2 and you get the angle on each half that is 5.5 degrees. Using my speed square I marked the angles and cut them. after they were cut I flipped the front sections over and then the cuts lined up to make 11 degrees. This way you don't lose material like you would if it was pie cut.

The frame mocked up after cutting the angles.

Steering box in relation to the frame,

from another angle.

Steering column will move up a couple inches, ran out of wood blocks.

The frame squared and tacked together. Next up is building the front spring mount and bearing style panhard mount or Spencer fork as it is called in an earlier post.

 

This is the bearing I am using in place of the panhard bar. With the spring mount at 5-1/2" above the frame minus the bearing size gives me about 4" of suspension travel. I am not sure that is enough, any thoughts?