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Hydraulic Hand Clutch

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ChopHoliday, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. ChopHoliday
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Posts: 40

    ChopHoliday
    Member
    from P-Town, VA

    Building a hot rod with a '32 Ford pickup body chanelled 3" over a drop frame and it has of course minimized the foot space. Have a good friend who's somewhat familiar with hydraulic clutches and we're planning to fabricate a hand-clutch to go on the shifter. Aside from the space we're going for the "cool factor" as well. I have a '53 Mercury flathead and 3-speed tranny and need to know the amount of pressure it takes to press the fork for the clutch. Also, if anyone has any suggestions about a kit that might work please let me know. I've heard some older sprint cars used something similar. Are there any applications that we could go by for ideas? Anyhow, thanks for your advice and support.
    Holiday
     
  2. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    Somewhat familiar? :D
     
  3. Maybe a remote hydravac like the powerbrake setups for little British sports cars and lightweight rods (yeah, I don't get it either) would do the trick. A motorcycle clutch lever on the shifter could pull a cable. The cable pulls a lever, which in accuates a motorcycle brake master cyliner. That forces fluid to the hydravac, which in turn increases the force of original action through the use of the vacuum assist. I dunno, maybe it would work. My dad was crippled but always found a way to live a normal life on his terms. He would have tried something like this if he lost all use of his left leg just so he could shift for himself.
     
  4. Beef Stew
    Joined: Oct 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,253

    Beef Stew
    Member
    from So Cal

    sprint cars don't have clutches.
     

  5. Kirk Hanning
    Joined: Feb 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,605

    Kirk Hanning
    Member

    Use a behind the dash pedal assembly and a hydraulic throwout bearing.
    My truck is channeled 6 1/2" and even less footroom. A hand clutch may work but holy cow I couldn't see squezing it all day long, especially in a traffic jam.

    -Kirk
     
  6. Normal road clutches have features like the marcel wave in the plate,
    which introduce excess travel to make the operation smoother.
    However these features really work against you when you want to make the thing hand controlled.
    If you use a race style direct acting paddle clutch which has no excess travel built in it is just about possible to operate the clutch by hand, but it's heavy.
    Probably better to use something more like a modified version of the stick-shift auto and power the clutch arm with an electric motor and just have a button on the stick.
     
  7. I've been through this very same thing on my bike. I have a Boss Hoss with a 350 Chevy ZZ4. I have managed to solve the problem to my satisfaction. It was a booger, a lot of trial and error. Check it out at my blog. http://jkcallin.blogspot.com/
    Go to the posts for 2008
     
  8. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think you'd have your hands full (no pun) trying to operate that clutch with a hand lever. First of all, you are going to lose some mechanical advantage due to your hand not being able to operate over as wide a range of movement as a foot clutch does. Second, your hand probably isn't as strong as your foot/leg, but that's for you to judge. The combination of the two is going to make it very hard and tiring to do. If I was trying to build something like this, I'd use a power brake vacuum booster. Hell you could even just set it up with a button switch, air solenoid and vacuum servo to make your clutch "button operated". Of course you'd then probably want to have a vacuum reserve canister, just in case you need to disengage the clutch under low/no vacuum situations, like when the engine isn't running, or you're going up a steep hill, or you've got your foot to the floor.

    Now that I think about it, maybe vacuum isn't a good idea......
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  9. RichG
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,919

    RichG
    Member

    If you come up with a successful solution please, PLEASE post it here. I'm unable to operate a foot clutch due to some medical issues, and this would be heaven sent, as there's nothing more satisfying than blasting through the twisties with a manual! Awesome tech!:)
     
  10. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    But most dirt champ/silver crown cars do. Usually a seperate handle hooked to a m/c.
     
  11. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,312

    Slag Kustom
    Member

    i did this with a t bucket.

    it used an old steel harley clutch/brake cable lever welded to the shifter handle with the cable running to a performance machine remote master with a 3/4 bore. the master has a cable boss builtt into the lid and 2 bolt holes on the side to mount it.

    pressure plate was a ford long style with the static spring pressure set low and added weights on the fingers to increase pressure.

    it used a wilwood pull slave cylinder to the clutch arm.
     
  12. R A Wrench
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 517

    R A Wrench
    Member
    from Denver, Co

    I've seen some V8 bikes with a brake booster from small cars set up with the clutch mech. They worked well once it was running, had a foot operated lever to disengage before starting. Or remember to always park it in neutral.
     
  13. hotrod-Linkin
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 3,382

    hotrod-Linkin
    Member

    howe racing release bearing,wilwood 1 inch bore master cylinder,with a hand lever ,will work like a snap.the travel on the lever won't be much and it doesn't take charles atlas to operate it.
     
  14. john56h
    Joined: Jan 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,760

    john56h
    Member

    BERT makes a compact hand clutch master cylinder for use in Modifieds and Champ Cars.
     
  15. john walker
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 1,137

    john walker
    Member

    think VW autostick or porsche sportomatic. contacts in the shifter handle that contact when the shifter is moved to complete the ground to a vacuum servo that passes vacuum to a servo that pulls the clutch arm.
     
  16. One of them motorcycle manufactures has a cable operated master cyl for the front brakes. they wanted the sanitary bars look. The cable is inside the bar. cly is under tank.
    I also have seen a one off custom master cly inside the bar and some trick lever to operate it.
    gonna take some "cyfering" to figure out the bore size of the mcyl to move the hyd throwout bearing enough with the mechanical leverage you have in your hand. i'm thinking you will need the same size bore as any other hyd. clutch would need. i dont think you would be able to operate that by hand with a 5" lever when there is a 12" lever for your leg.

    I'd hang a circle track pedal set and see if that might work . next would be run a hand throttle from a bike like a handicap van
     
  17. ChopHoliday
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Posts: 40

    ChopHoliday
    Member
    from P-Town, VA

    Thanks for all the great info and ideas. I'm new here and was told it's a great place to share and gain advice from fellow builders. I've noticed very fast there are quit a few folks who have nothing better to do than make smart-ass comments and should keep their words behind their computers. It's those people who make me more determined to build what they say can't be so thank you! And again, for those of you with your very helpfull comments thank you.
    Holiday
     
  18. What about a hand control supplier for guys in wheelchairs? Several guys on here have hand controls, probably on automatics, but what did they do in the days before automatic trans?
     
  19. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    Did I just get served?:eek:
     
  20. Beef Stew
    Joined: Oct 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,253

    Beef Stew
    Member
    from So Cal

    call a cab.
     
  21. Beef Stew
    Joined: Oct 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,253

    Beef Stew
    Member
    from So Cal

    dude you got owned by an fng with four posts and a flair for the "cool factor".
     
  22. Well, having been through this, there are things that cannot be changed. One is leverage/throw. With enough leverage to get an acceptable pull at the hand lever, there is not enough throw to fully disengage the clutch. This has been the big bugaboo with the V-8 bikes. The Early Boss Hosses were one speed with no neutral. It was clutch in or clutch out, that's it. Full disegagement was not required, just enough to allow the bike to stop in gear. I changed my bike to a 2 speed manual trans, so full disengagement was necessary to allow me to shift gears without clashing. Because of the small area on a bike, the tiny Datsun booster is all there is room for, so this is why I went to the booster/mousetrap. In a car, you could run a larger or dual diapragm booster and get a lighter pull at the hand lever and, possibly get enough throw to disengage without an additional mechanical booster. Some of the V-8 bike guys have tried lighter clutches, but I wouldn't try it in a car, especially if your going to hammer it from time to time. As I said earlier, check out what I did on my blog. It works. http://jkcallin.blogspot.com/
     
  23. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    I did? I got OWNED too?:(

    And I spent like 20 minutes trying to find company that builds the under dash bellcrank mechanism.

    I found it by the way. I think in the long run it would be better than fussing around with a hand clutch.

    http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/hanging_pedal_assemblies.html

    Just don't let a guy who's "somewhat familiar" with welding put it in.
     
  24. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,505

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    Use a Harley Mouse Trap :D
     
  25. let see,,,,,,,, pull the clutch lever left hand grab second gear right hand ,,,,, who holds the wheel? or did something go over my head,,,,,,, ?
     
  26. ChopHoliday
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Posts: 40

    ChopHoliday
    Member
    from P-Town, VA

    No worries little Dreddybear. That wasn't you being "served". Have fun at the Trekie convention.
     
  27. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    I think he's saying lever ON the shifter.

    It could be made to work. I'm just saying you'll probably not like it very much, and the point is to have fun when driving. Seems like it would stress ya out...
     
  28. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,505

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    its easy to do really ,,you mount a trigger on front of your shifter like the old Hurst vertigates ,( or you can mount a motorcycle clutch lever and use that in a pistol grip kinda way ) ,you feed a motor cycle clutch cable into the place where teh rod goes..That hooks to a hyd unit that will then engage the slave cylinder and there ya have it,,can draw ya a picture if you like
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  29. ChopHoliday
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Posts: 40

    ChopHoliday
    Member
    from P-Town, VA

    That's too funny man! Thanks for your help and I'll be sure to leave the welding to the "very familiar"! ahah
     
  30. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,084

    Dreddybear
    Member

    OH! THAT was being served! I know it! :p And FYI a Trekie convention is for those who love mountain bikes. Trekkie I believe is the insult you were going for. Ya smart ass. :D
     

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