OK, just because I do things differently, it is often at my own demise, and extra $$$$. I want to make a Sedance DeVille, formal town car custom, out of a 28 Essex. (A formal towncar was chauffer driven with a tonneau over the drivers section.) Do do so will require extending the doors at lease 4-6 inches and the frame accordingly. Is there a recommended procedure for cutting the doors to extend them? Also, I want to make an open area on the back 1/3 of the passenger compartment with a convertible top. As a cabinet maker I can make the wood for the top. Any hints on doing this will be greatly appreciated. Engine and trans will be late model GM. 28 EssexNQS
Well, obviously not obvious to this guy. However, it IS obvious that one becomes a member or senior member by making lots of posts. But if it takes smart ass comments just to make enough posts, then I will remain happy as an FNG making posts when I think I can actually contribute something OTHER than SAC's.
With these pictures you can see the work involved in stretching a door. go to this guys thread or blog Hudson 4 door to 2 door should help. good luck!!
This forum does have too much unnecessary drama. I still look at it almost daily to try and learn something new. Don't be distracted by the negative comments.
1st question. Does the 1928 Essex have a wood framed or steel framed door? If wood framed I leave it to you to make a new wider wooden frame. To widen a steel door the usual procedure is to cut it vertically and weld in a strip of steel inside and out. Another way is to take 2 doors, cut them in unequal halves and weld the wide parts together. This cuts the amount of welding in half. I doubt you have any spare Essex doors so forget that idea. The real problem with welding is warpage in the large flat area. There is a way around this. You will need to make a new door skin from a flat sheet of metal. Weld up the inner frame and the outer window frame. Make a new door skin that starts a few inches below the window. Weld or fasten with panel adhesive along the top and crimp the metal over he inner door around the edges like stock. This would be more work than welding in a strip of metal but makes a nicer job. I do not recommend the opening roof at the back. It is too hard to make the mechanism and it weakens the body too much. Don't overmatch yourself. Make the framework for the body out of wood or steel, cover with metal mesh, then padding, then muslin or cloth, finally vinyl top material. This is the best and easiest way to do it.
Hi Dan...First of all ..this is a big job if you arn't fabrication savvy....here are a couple of pics of the door extension 10" long I have done on my 49 Caddy Fleetwood...It was a 4 door...where I live 49 Caddy parts are super rare..so I have to make every thing for it....Have made a full lower inner frame ..this will keep the door fairly true in relation to the rocker panel ..and a outer skin patch panel insert...when I do it again I will make a full skin...would be a better job....which I will do on the right door...dont extend your door untill you have completed where the B pillar is fixed...make the door to suit the opening...Good luck......Doug
There are a lot of issues with making them wider. All car doors of that age and newer, have a compound curved lower center panel. If you lay the door flat on the floor, the highest part of the crown is the center. That's where it needs to be cut, and that is a tough place to add metal without warping/shrinking. And when that uncut door is laying flat; let's say the highest part of the crowned panel measures say 4" off the floor. For the new. wider door, and if the same curve is maintained, that 4" crown will need to get a tiny bit higher, so it can't just be flat metal added in. Same is true on the upper door where the window is, and the top piece as well as the beltline moulding. These all need slightly crowned pieces. It all can be done if you plan ahead as to what needs to be done to keep the compound curves all good.
[ Do do ] Post a pic of your door, Im pretty sure there similar to model a doors, you might start by cutting it in half. If you have an extra set of doors that would save alot of time making filler panels...
Hey Dan, I'm guessin all the drama in this post was caused by the pull of the full moon, today. I'd start the design phase of your project by viewing as many antique/full classic automotive shows as you can in the comming months. A study of the Sedanica Deville style of coachbuilt automobile will answer how it was done in the 20's&30's. I'd suggest you not try and cobble together a door shell & skin, but build one that will fit your new door opening from the start. You may well find a door shell from a LKQ Studebaker or Essex coach that may serve for your length. The folding top well, at the rear will be a full challenge, but a study of touring cars from the 20s & 30's will lead to some answers. Good luck, sounds like a great project- " Humpty Dumpty was pushed "
Hey, Dan; IIRC, in '28/'29, Essex had a dbl-skinned door. Supposed to help w/crash-intrusion, or some such. When I got mine, I was warned to absolutely, never, ever, have the doors dipped. 'Course I had to ask "why"? Seems that along w/the dbl-skin, they separated them w/something like a sheet of roofing paper. So the dipping would remove that, & anyway, you'd never get paint in between the layers of sheetmetal. So, if you can't or won't build a new door skin, like Pimpin Paint suggested, this may be a way to get the extra skin needed. Assuming the info I got was correct. I didn't bother to cut the doors apart to check to see if the guy was correct. . It's been awhile since I looked at my Essex, but I don't remember much wood in it. Mostly the top, & around the rear window. & probably the floors. Wooden framed doors would probably be correct for that type of car, even in '28. Due to being essentially a one-off custom factory build. Sounds like a neat build. Marcus...
I'd get it photoshopped before chopping anything real. It may be that your idea just plain doesn't look right.
I googled 28 Essex, and it looks like a fairly simple shape. If you have access to a beadroller and a english wheel, it might be easyer to make a new doorskin than it would be to weld in a strip to lengthen the door. ( that can also be done, but its not easy...) And just lengthen the inside frame after you peel off the skin. If you do not have access to a english wheel, find something out of a donor car that has the right compound curve ( like a roofpanel, or a decklid ) If you dont have a beadroller it gets tricky, because you'll need one to put in the character line in either way ( in the complete skin, or into the piece to lengthen what you have ) If the doorskin is double layered, like wizard says, I wouldnt even attempt to cut and splice it.
as you provide another SAC....kinda ironic.... Anyways back to the op's question. It really kinda depends on the specific car as to where I would decide to make the cuts. I'd think about a new outer skin for it after I got the inner back together. Got some pictures of what you have and what you want?
hey there Dan tell us what tools you have please...that'll determine how you go about the task at hand
as Hitchiker has said...a few photos would help also. BTW I have never seen a vintage car in my 23+ years as a coachbuilder that has double skins on the doors. Poss what was referred to was that the doors have a substantial frame to them which can make access difficult for repairs.
This what I found on the net. quote: The doors on most old cars were made with an inner door shell and an outer door skin that was folded over at the edges of the inner door shell. The (GM anyway) manufacturers used a fiber board spacer between them right behind the seam. This fiber board is terrible for retaining moisture and causing rust.
A good place to start is buy a door skin for a model a sedan - one that has proper crown, this can be used for the strips to extend it. if the car is all apart and you are making it almost from scratch or a pile of parts then...... I would make the body longer in the door opening area -extend the subframe as much as the door- post pictures so we can look at it. you can PM me I have done this. Raven
You might look at CBOY's thread on how he put a crown in his home built door with minimal tools. You may be able to make a new door skin below the belt line using his method after lengthening your inner structure
Thanks to all the replys. Yep the '28 Essex has a filler in the door skins and the doors are all steel. I am finishing up a '28 Essex that I have put a '79 turbo V-6 in. That will be done this summer. I am looking at my next project. I know where there is another '28 Essex and this could be the next projet. It is easy to stretch the body since the floors are wood and the top is also wood. Just the doors are the issue. I have always wanted a Sedanca Deville town car streetrod, why, 'cause nobody else has one!!!. . Once again, thanks for all the replys. This gonna work. I have an idea
Some of the Divider window cars had a filler panel between the front doors and the rear Easy solution is to get an an extra front door .... cut it down to make 2 filler panels between the front doors and the rear doors on both sides just my 2 cents
Been a while since I have visited this thread. Well the current essex is only several months/years behind what I had hoped. Finally took it to a proffesional rod shop to do the finish work. Still hoping to make an Essex into a sedanca deville. Attached are pix. Wood interior top. Dan
I just noticed your post today and I don't know how far you have progressed. I have a 31 Essex that I made a four door out of a two door sedan. I just cut the body in half at the front of the latchng door post and moved it back the distance of the new door. I made a new door post out of 1" x 2" 1/8" square tubeing and welded it to the roof side and the floor section . I then used a piece of 1/4" plate (a triangle about 8" x 8"and curved it to match the roof curve and then welded another 1" x2" 1/8" tube across the inside of the roof for a support/roll bar. The extra doors that I used were from a 4 door Hudson that had a cut out for the rear fender that had to be filled in. I installed the doors on the oposit sides from original so that they fit into the original door jam that I had moved back. I have pictures if you would like them. One thing that was apparent when I finished the project, was that the roof line that was a stright line from the windshield to the rear of the rear window when new, and when I was done, the section above the rear door was parrell to the center line of the car, not in a stright line, I have an extra door that I think is off of a 29 or 30 that I was unable to use. It is rough but could be useful in your project. ?
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