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Ford 400m timing help!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bad Bob, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    I've spent the last hour on the internet trying to find the timing specs for a Ford 400m. Not my choice of motors,but that's what my Merc came with. Can somebody help me out?
     
  2. TexasHardcore
    Joined: May 30, 2003
    Posts: 4,731

    TexasHardcore
    Member

    Leave vacuum line on and set timing to 30* BTDC at 3,000RPM

    Try that, if it doesn't work, you're screwed. JK...just play with the timing. If you hear pinging, back it off a bit.
     
  3. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    DUDE! Thanks SOOO much! It was running kinda crappy. This should straighten her out...
     
  4. Bob, let us know how it is after you've done as suggested. Is your 400 a stocker or not? They respond well to a little tickling , a healthy one will pull like a school boy !
     
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  5. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    It pulls awesome but starts to flutter. I'll mess with it when I get home from work. It didn't do it before,but I tried to give it the "Bad Bob Tune-up",and messed it all up! I'll let you guys know how it works.
     
  6. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    Well,got home and put the timing light on it and set it to about 10* BTDC. Same thing....sputter,sputter! So I backed it down to TDC and it smoothed right out! Revv'd it up a few times and the throttle response is AWESOME now!!!! Should drive great now....I'll find out on the way to Ink-n-Iron tomorrow...
     
  7. Bettlejuice
    Joined: Apr 27, 2009
    Posts: 481

    Bettlejuice
    Member
    from WV

    IIRC they're supposed to like about 6 degrees initial timing (that's what the factory recommends, I always ran more in my Clevelands but I don't remember what). Those dampers they used on the 335 series motors though liked to rot out the rubber letting the outer ring slip, making the timing marks useless. I actually encountered it with a balancer, so it must not be too uncommon. If there's even a question about it, bring #1 to top dead center and put some timing tape on it (I just replaced my balancer with a new one, but I worked at a speed shop at the time, and our house brand balancers were Romac's, so it was too good a deal to pass up).
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2009
  8. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,869

    havi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Stockwise, the timing set is 4 degrees retarded. Just by putting on a double roller Cloyes timing set put to "straight-up" will make it perform. If the PO did this, then yeah, the valve cover sticker of 10 degrees will be wrong.
     
  9. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    It's a pretty old motor. I'm sure it hasn't ever been touched,til I messed with it. I'm eventually putting a 302/C4 in it,so I don't plan on spending any money on it. We'll see how it performs this weekend.
     
  10. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    10* was just a guess. I couldn't believe how much it pepped up by retarding it! Usually advancing the timing does the trick.
     
  11. Bettlejuice
    Joined: Apr 27, 2009
    Posts: 481

    Bettlejuice
    Member
    from WV

    I'd say piss on the 302, slap some 4V heads on 'er (on a 400 you'd probably need open chambers or dished pistons), and let her rip! You can build a 400 up pretty nice, check out the 335 Forum over at Network54. I wouldn't hesitate to run a 400 if I had a car with one, I LOVE Clevelands, I like using factory performance parts whenever I can, and Clevelands have a nice selection of factory parts. 350+ HP definitely not be out of the question with a mild upgrades at a fairly cheap pricetag.

    If you have a C4, see if you can find a big block bellhousing for it and use that transmission with it, I ran a C4 behind a Cleveland and it was a nice combo.
     
  12. Doesn't sound like it has a 'updated' timing set then. I've heard a stock replacement "double roller" set will work wonders, since it does away with the factory retard. LOL :rolleyes: I'm going to hell now...

    BTW, I have a 351m In my Cougar...it's got some guts...and from what I've read, it CAN be a really great engine with the right parts. One of those overlooked & misunderstood engines.
     
  13. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    I have a C6 in it right now. The thing I don't like about it is it's SOOOO fuckin heavy! Plus the C6 weighs a ton also! I know about the 335 sight. A guy on there suggested some head work and a RV cam. I already have an Edelbrock Performer manifold and 600 carb on it. I've been looking for a highrise manifold or air-gap,but haven't found anything.
     
  14. I think if you run the numbers it's not all that much heavier than a 302, and lighter than a 460...
     
  15. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    The guy who wrote the FORD Hop-up book I bought LOVES them,and says they can be a real torque monster! I just started reading it and plan on looking for some of the performance parts he recomends.
     
  16. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    Jeremy's Merc,that's over at slddnmatt's shop has a BUILT 460 and it sounds INSANE!!!!!
     
  17. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,869

    havi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Aluminum heads (CHI's) and intake= the weight of a stock iron 302. Aussie heads are the cat's meow for a mild build. Otherwise www.tmeyerinc.com Tim has the goods.
     
  18. 39 All Ford
    Joined: Sep 15, 2008
    Posts: 1,531

    39 All Ford
    Member
    from Benton AR

    I think the Ms get a bad rap... other than the dismal compression ratio and smogger heads I think they are pretty solid...

    I think that early "better" Cleveland heads will bolt up improving both issues.

    There is some debate over the early 2V vs. 4V heads being best, (I think the 2Vs for a more streetable engine, 4V for balls out) but little doubt that either set of early Cleveland heads will help A LOT..

    If it were me I would think hard about making the M engine work,,,,, or putting a bad ass 368 LYB in there.... :D
     
  19. I always thought it was a huge boat anchor, but after much reading in both books and on the net (see the link I sent you), and some footage I have seen from drag races, I am convinced it is an overlooked engine, with great potential.
    Downside is that it can be comparable to a BB Chevy in terms of build cost. But, it's unique.
     
  20. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,869

    havi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    400 eye candy!
     

    Attached Files:

  21. Well, if it fits, and you have the money, I guess there is no replacement for displacement. I gave away a running 460 to a friend because nobody wanted to give me $500 for it. :eek:
     
  22. That's another plus, they have good eye-appeal because of those rectangular valve covers! :D
     
  23. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

    I wonder if Cal Custom ever made any valve covers for them?
     
  24. Look for 351 Cleveland covers...same...I think they did.
     
  25. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,869

    havi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  26. Bad Bob
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 23,772

    Bad Bob
    Member
    from O.C. Baby

  27. Bettlejuice
    Joined: Apr 27, 2009
    Posts: 481

    Bettlejuice
    Member
    from WV

    There are some cool lookin' valve covers for them (but some of them are pretty "muscle car"), I always liked the plain 'ol Power By Ford ones, but I like them on pretty much all the motors.

    You have a good working C6, which means you can sell it as such with a clean conscience... That'll get you a couple hundred, and then you can use that and buy the C4 adapter bell. Plenty of Windsor strokers run them, it's just fine for a Cleveland 400. That'll free you up alot of weight and net you some HP.

    I've heard one more than one occasion that the off-the-shelf intake spacers are sort of crumby, but you could have them machined (or find good ones) and make any of the 351C's intakes fit, and there are quite a few good manifolds for them. Rockers are the same as the 385 series, and are "close enough" to BBC's that you can use them as well. Cleveland cams, which come in all the modern-type grinds, as well as "factory muscle" grinds... I have always had a love for the 351C, and the 400 is close enough to have plenty of potental.

    <i>EDIT: The extra cubes will tone down the 4V heads compared to what most think of on a 351C (or for the ones that have gone for an awesome ride, a Boss 302), just the same as cams and such. Again, just think of a 351W vs. a 408W, or a 350 SBC to a 400 SBC. Same principles apply. </i>
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2009
  28. havi
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,869

    havi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got my C4 adapter bell from 396skip here on the HAMB. pn D5OP-7976-BA
     

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