From your description it sounds like a 4 speed truck transmission. It is non synchro and the first gear is too low for a passenger car (unless you want to use it a lot for parades). Go for the '39 truck transmission. What vehicle is it going into? Charlie Stephens
All the posts are correct saying that it is a 1937-38 engine. It will have insert bearings. If you want to install it in a 1936 or earlier vehicle you can bolt on the earlier heads and water pumps (paying attention to flat and domed top pistons that will require the head be compatible with the piston). This might be a good place to ask what is it going into? You will need to make a plate to block off the two water pump positions at the front of the block. This was such a common installation that Ford made a block off plate for dealers to use, you should be able to find one. The only disadvantage to the 21 stud is that speed equip is harder to find and more expensive. Charlie Stephens
it will be going in my 30 tudor in my avatar. thanks for all the info. starting to get a handle on this. i know very little about flat v8s.
Im planning on using 39 tranny. was just curious if this tranny would be worth anything to anyone other than a boat anchor Ha
Maybe I need new glasses (99 cent store here I come) but I don't remember seeing a picture of the tranny. I how about a picture before you head to the boatyard, it might be good to be sure what you have? Try an ad on fordbarn before the boatyard. Charlie Stephens
Using the 39 case is just fine but you should consider putting gears in it from a 46 as they are synchro. Your looking for a case that is marked 78.
Syncros came out in '32. They got better as time passed. The best ones came out in '39. These same gears were used through '48. Passenger car transmissions were side shift beginning in '40 but the gears can be used in the '39 case by running the '39 shifting tower. The case with the "78" came out in 1937 and was used through '39 in cars and '48 in trucks. Charlie Stephens
Charlie....thanks for the info...what would be the benefits of changing to earlier heads and waterpump placements.
The changeover is generally just to make the '37 look about right in some '32-36 car. No real benefits and some possible problems. The '36 "LB" (replaceable main bearing engine) used on some '36 Fords is more or less the same as the '37 except for the pump holes and is very good for updating earlies, but it has become very expensive in comparison.
another question. i need to lift this with a cherry picker this weekend. where are best spots to attach chain to motor. normally i just attach to intake manifold at kitty corners or make plate to bolt to carb pad. this motors pretty heavy
The main benefit, as Bruce noted, is looks. The hoses from the water pumps will go straight to the '34 radiator instead of having a kink or having some adapter made up to handle the angle. The '37-'38 will look like the '34 engine to anyone that doesn't know what to look for. You would probably even want to run a '34 intake manifold to put the generator at the correct height. The only disadvantage to the pump location is that when the pump is in the block it pushes water into the engine putting it under a slight pressure and the head mounted pumps suck the water from the engine putting the water under a slight negative pressure. Since the boiling point is higher under pressure the pumps in the block will cool slightly better but it shouldn't mater for an engine that is in good condition. Question for Bruce, "What are the possible problems"? Charlie Stephens
I just use a couple of opposite ended head bolts while the heads are still on. One thing you are going to want to do is get a side adapter for a conventional engine stand. It mounts to the exhaust studs. Do not mount the integral bell housing to the engine stand. The weight can crack them. Red's Headers has them for around a $100.00 or you can make your own if you have welding skills.
For your information the water pump block off plates are Ford part number 78-8528. You can probably find them on EBAY or call the old Ford parts suppliers and see if they have any originals on the shelf. Bob Drake may make a reproduction (as well as others). Charlie Stephens
Possible problems...water flow as you noted, need for flattop pistons for some heads (actually, most production line heads), and the low compression and low turbulence of the flattop type chambers (these are assumptions, there, but I think it is likely why Ford switched to Ricardo type chambers during '35-6 and stuck with them for all later flatheads.)
flatford 39. im going to pull an exhaust manifold to use as a pattern to make a bolt on for the engine stand. Bruce and Charlie and everyone else. you guys are. a wealth of knowledge. great to have access to guys like you. thanks
another quick question...disregarding the model car or vehicle, are the exhaust headers interchangeable between 24 and 21 stud engines
Bruce can a post 39 tranny with open drive universal be converted to closed driveline style tail shaft. I see several later trans that look like the case and lenght are the same with exception of the tail shaft area. I would like syncros but want to avoid converting to open drive line if i can help it.
got the heads and intake off and emeried between valves and between valves and cylinders and there are no cracks to be found. there is also very little carbon on top of the cylinders, in fact you can see these are marked .30 over without even cleaning the top of the cylinders. As soon as I get it in the stand i will get tha pan off and check for cracks there.....so far, pretty pleased
As for using a set of gears from a side shift tranny in a top shift box, be sure to use the corresponding compatible "2-3 slide ring" (for want of proper name), and shift cover, lever assembly. If you use a slide ring with groove offset to rear and a shifter assy. meant for a center groove, the slide ring will go too far into high gear, hte buttons will pop up on the back side and allow the rear brass ring to turn and the slots in the ring will no longer align with the buttons and trans will be hung uo in high gear. If using a slider with offset groove, use a shifter assy. from a post1940 pickup. Was back in about '57-'58 when this happened to me, but I haven't forgotten it, LOL!!!!!!!! If I had that engine and intended to use it I would go thru it and inspect/ replace as needed throughout. Too much work to pull out again when you get tired of leaving a smoke trail and watching an oil pressure gauge barely move after it gets warmed up.
You're in almost the same boat as I was. I pulled my '37 apart, there were no cracks and it was .030 over. I did have a lot of carbon though. I ended up having to go to .060 over. Block should be coming back from the machine shop soon.
Yeah...i intend to pull the pistons, hone and re-ring if possible. also plan on changing valve guides if needed...i will know more as i tear into it a little more
You are going to love getting the old guides out if they have been since Henry installed them. It's the worst part of a flathead rebuild.
Mine weren't too much of a problem. Granted I don't know if they had ever been out, and I just broke them, as I am replacing them with the later style. Hope it goes relatively easy for you!
If you need new guides or valves, change the whole set over to the 49-53 style. You can thank me later.
are these direct change over...got all but 6 head studs pulled. broke 2 but already drilled and tapped out. soaking the last 6 in PB blaster. i should have them out next weekend. gotta make an adapter for the stand then will pull pan and I will know pretty much all i need about this engine.
Yes they are. Yours are two piece if I remember and the later ones are one piece. They are interchangeable and the one piece are easier to work with. There are a number of tools you are going to need to get them out and put them back in. The long KD prybar is a must and I have had luck with there guide puller at least on intakes. You can find these on Ebay all the time or a lot of the vendors sell them as well. If you have a guide that is really stuck (and I suspect you will) just cut the head and stem off of the valve and soak it with your favorite rust buster and then drive it out from the top. I had one that took forever to get it but it finally gave up because I sure wasn't. You may want to get the Bishop Tardell flathead rebuild book. There are some great graphics in there. I bought mine on Amazon. Good luck and I suspect by now you have caught Flathead Fever. Start saving your money. You are going to need it.
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