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Epoxy Primers/Sealers and Single stage Paint

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    (I searched here first, and didn't see anything specifically on KS, except for HotRod Flatz)

    I've been looking at various epoxy primer and sealer systems by various makes (PPG, HOK, DuPont, etc.) Since I'm going to be running around in primer for a little bit until the bugs are worked out of everything, I figured I would at least put it in something other than light gray and closer to the color it will actually be. I found that there are several systems out there that offer a few colors.

    While educating myself in all this epoxy primer business I keep running across this brand that TPC Global sells: Kustom Shop Paint Products. Looked for reviews from people on the product and didn't see any negatives on their products.

    Anyone familiar with these primer systems? Here's a link to the page:

    http://www.tcpglobal.com/kustomshop/ksprime.aspx

    Everytime I look for PPG or HOK primers on TPC Global it takes me right to that page.

    Just curious. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  2. Try SPI Products
     
  3. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  4. SlowandLow63
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 5,957

    SlowandLow63
    Member
    from Central NJ

    From what I hear, their clears are top notch. I've been wanting to try them myself. I don't know much about their primers though.

    Is the price on HOK scaring you? Or the color/sealer thing?
     
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  5. I used their epoxy primer/sealer on my Plymouth firewall. It worked good and have had no issues (but it has sat in the garage ever since:rolleyes:). I have also used their single stage paint which was pretty good too. I did find while their prices are pretty decent, their shipping costs took the savings away. I have reverted back to dealing with the local paint shop. Your local shop should have a "house" brand that they offer and I would think it's equal to their "kustom shop". Now that I think about it, I'm as happy with the cheap stuff as I was with my $250 PPG.....
     
  6. SPI is great stuff, have been usin it for years, never a problem.
    Their Universial clear is by far the best i"ve ever used.
    The epoxy will bite to anything (clean)
     
  7. mikhett
    Joined: Jan 22, 2005
    Posts: 863

    mikhett
    Member
    from jackson nj

    I go to Smartshoppers.com and buy Hok kp2cf epoxy primer mixed 1:1 for 200.00 bucks you get 2 gallons sprayable.
     
  8. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 5,018

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    PPG's Shopline products are a good choice. The epoxy primers are the old school DP formula with the trace metals left in, prices are much less.
     
  9. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not scared of the price per say (although I AM shopping around), but didn't like so much that I would have to lay down another product over it to get close to the desired color I want to run around in for a year.

    MOSTLY though... I'm just trying to educate myself on all the bads, good, what's available, why people do or don't use certain products, etc.. I definitely realize who has the "top shelf" products, but since I've started to read and research I've come across all kinds of systems. Just want to know all my options and weigh the pros and cons of each.

    In the end, I will choose something based on feedback from people with experience over someone who has just painted their first thing ever last week and it was a patio table. :rolleyes::D

    I sort of expected I wouldn't hear much on the Kustom Shop products. I figured I would hear more though. Is it just TPC's "house product"?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009
  10. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'll look into this a little more. Thanks!

    I'll check out smartshoppers. Thanks!

    I've really been trying to learn more about all the PPG products that people have recommended to me and DAMN their website is a pain in the ass. Everything that anyone recommends to me doesn't come up on their website and it drives me crazy. Does anyone else have this problem? Frustrating! ShopLine does appear to come up though. FINALLY!

    Great! That's good to know! Thanks!
     
  11. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looking at the Shop-Line products, real quick...

    https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProdu...roductID=26f0b8be-236e-4214-827b-58ef2dd2503b

    One thing I notice is that it doesn't have the ability to be reduced as a sealer. How does it hold up over a extended period of time? If I ran around in it for a bit, can it be scrubbed and prepped for a base coat (or another coat of epoxy) or would it all have to be stripped off again?
     
  12. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So, if no more feedback on Kustom Shop, I guess keep the other suggestions going. Any other companies worth checking out before I start ordering stuff?
     
  13. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 5,018

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Yes it can be used as a sealer. I do it often. It's just about the same as the old DP, but what you need to know is that ALL epoxy primer/sealers are not very UV resistant. More than 1 season in the sun and you'll need to re-coat. I get what you wanna do here, drive around in primer until...

    Shopline comes in white, grey and black. I have tinted the stuff for certain base colors with no ill results. For sealer use add a 1/2 measure of urethane reducer like their 506 or 507 depending on temp/conditions. As long as it doesn't go too long a re-caot shouldn't be an issue. If it gets really chalky, sorta lighter grey in color you may need to remove a significant amount for re-coat/color. I'll stand bt my experiences and say again that ALL epoxy primers are not very UV resistant. Any add'l help needed don't hesitate to ask. Good luck.




    Hey waiy a min...where's pics of the car? If their in an older post refresh our memories.
     
  14. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 4,856

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    WOW!
    A paint thread where a guy asks a question...gets good answers...gives good feedback...and asks more intelligent questions.....
    AM I REALLY ON THE HAMB??????????
    After coming out of shock....I just need to add to this.....The reason I use HOK, and probably Bill, as well, is that is is a great "one shot" primer. That is, it had great adhesion, fills scratches and imperfections very well, sands easily, and is a good sealer as well. You really don't need any other product!
    As for needing a different product to get the colot you want...only if you're runnng around in primer and don't like GAHGAH green. I agree that color is somewhat disturbing. But whatever color you use on top of it will cover it well. Sometimes I use KO sealer on top, just so I don't have to put on excess coats of color, to cover it (as with a very transparent color) but just as often, I don't use a sealer.
     
  15. Christopher26
    Joined: Feb 15, 2009
    Posts: 124

    Christopher26
    Member

    I got Kustom Shops, DTM epoxy primer/ sealer on my 51, and its been a year of NY winter and rain and theres been no problem whats so ever with it, I used it on my uncles bike also. I was also able to tint it to match the roof flake and used there mid clear, and clear on top of it. I couldnt be happier with the results
     
  16. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,964

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Scoot,

    If your end game is to actually top coat this thing someday, I'd be shopping a primer/sealer that will live happily ever after with your top coat choice! Pick a paint system and go with that is what I'm sayin'.

    Kirker, PCL & Omni (PPG's shop brand) all make "good'' budget friendly products that you can buy over the counter in good ol' O.C.!

    I'd stay outa the heavily tinted primer arena, & go with a medium or darker primer to begin with if your top coat is gonna be medium to dark in colour.

    Swanky Devils C.C.
    " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
     
  17. Doktor Hug
    Joined: Sep 20, 2009
    Posts: 53

    Doktor Hug
    Member
    from omaha ne

    I always like to support small local shops. I was really surprised this year with some paint from Nason...PPG's? low-cost brand. It worked really well, and they had a nice range of factory and custom colors. I think they even sell it at O'Reiley's now.

    Try that out and see what you think.
     
  18. Boones
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 9,450

    Boones
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Kent, Wa

    chopolds, you got a picture of what that GAHGAH green looks like sprayed.
     
  19. Jeff J
    Joined: Mar 15, 2007
    Posts: 720

    Jeff J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've been using there products for the last 4 years and love It (Kustom Shop)! Painted a lot of gas pumps with them at first trying the stuff out and it flows great and is user friendly! Kinda seams like the old formula of PPG Been spraying PPG for years and things change !That's why I went and tried them (Kustom Shop)
     
  20. SlowandLow63
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 5,957

    SlowandLow63
    Member
    from Central NJ

    Mint choclate chip ice cream, without the choclate. Mmmmmmm... now I want ice cream, we have cookie dough in the fridge though...

    You still want a pic?
     
  21. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 4,856

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Here's a pic of an air filter i was getting ready to paint.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    WOW! This thread SERIOUSLY rocks! This is EXACTLY the type of input I wanted! Can't state my appreciation enough! I have learned so much about paint and prep from so many different helpful HAMBers! It's really staggering and for that matter, sort of overwhelming. I've found that almost every single guy I've talked to has a different answer, but I've learned lots from every answer. It's obvious there's multiple solutions to the process, but educating myself will only make it easier to prevent a mistake.

    Great! Thank you for sharing that!

    Okay! I know a soon to be famous coupe of another HAMBer used the Nason single stage on his chassis and it looks amazing!! He really liked it as well. I've heard mixed reviews on the Nason, but I've been considering it as well. ESPECIALLY after seeing the results of his car.

    EXACTLY what I'm thinking. I'm thinking of even just mixing to a darker gray and being done with it. Your suggestion at the Broiler the other night was very helpful! The next morning I was on the computer reading up on Omni and other things you mentioned. Thanks for your help!

    I've been thinking very seriously about going with the PPG system of paints for base and clear, so I'm considering the PPG Epoxy from this system, and maybe some of their others. Before I buy anything, I want to check base and clears to make sure whatever primer I go with is going to be compatible. I hear horror stories about people using one brand for primer and then another for base-clear and having the finish lift and having to start over. I like very much the idea of staying with one brand.

    So you need a picture? This is a somewhat out-dated picture, but this is what I've been working on...

    [​IMG]

    Really the focus of all this information is on the chassis itself though. I have a butt-load more work to do on the body before it's ready for ANY type of finish work.

    [​IMG]

    Right now it's all blown apart and I'm just focusing on the chassis and suspension. That's a handful in itself. 22 hours straight in the shop this weekend just working on finishing up the frame. I still have a lot more to do and I think I'm going to get a little media blaster to get into the tough spots before I lay any primer down. AGAIN! This is still very rough!

    Running gear will be gloss black and the frame itself will be the same color as the body.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  23. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,964

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Scoot,

    Are you hell bent for using a base coat, clear coat (BB/CC) finish on your hot rod, and if so, why?

    To me, a clear coat finish on a hot rod looks about like a whore in a girl scout dress! Nothing close to ''traditional'' & kinda ''poser-like''! Yeah, great for fucking Cameros and street rods, but hot rods, uh, no! Too, all clear coat finishes lacquer, acrylic, epoxy & urethane, will one day have ''ultraviolet light decomposition problems''. When a single stage finish begins to age you can cut/buff back the dead finish and wax for a shine. When a BB/CC finish, more correctly the clear coat takes a shit, you're lookin' a a complete refinish.
    Once upon a time, we use to call the Nason line of paint "Used Car Paint". It was a cheap alkyd enamel, but we'd take Ditzler's (now PPG) Delstar urethane crosslinker , and knock up the mix to produce a very cheap, but very durable mutant urethane. I think Nason is now owned by Dupont, and probably not even the same product it was 25-30 yrs. ago, but some like it still. If you're runnin' low on dough, somethin to think 'bout.
    Yeah, it don't have the "snob appeal'' of some of the ''euro-trash'' brands of paint, or HOK, but will not kick the shit out of your build budget either!
    Jus' somethin' else to think over-

    Swanky Devils C.C.
    " Meanwhyle, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
     
  24. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nope! Not hell-bent at all for a two-stage system.

    Since I'm far from being even a rookie painter, I know very little about final finishes that have been used over the years. This is a good point! Maybe I haven't thought nearly enough about it.

    Thanks for the input Rex! I appreciate it! I'll start doing my research. Feel free to add any knowledge and/or input on single stage finishes/systems.
     
  25. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 4,856

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Glad to see another painter who likes single stage paint. I almost always use it for solid colors, on old cars. Looks MUCH more authentic. But then again, Pimpin is one of the best paint authorities on board here!
    Good trick, if you want the single stage to look more like lacquer, than enamel, is to paint enough to get coverage, then put on 2-3 more coats mixed half and half with a compatible clear. You can fool a lot of people that way, even painters! Hell, I've even done this with black Centari and fooled a lot of folks!
     
  26. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,542

    zman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Garner, NC

    hey hey, that was my plan for my 38.... a restoration guy hipped me to it.
     
  27. 51ChevPU
    Joined: Jan 27, 2006
    Posts: 1,011

    51ChevPU
    Member
    from Arizona

    Scooter

    The TCP global people are the ones that sell Hot Rod Flatz. I've been at their shop and its located just north of San Diego in the Miramar area. The guys at the front desk were very helpful. I have some of their Hot Rod Flatz product, but I haven't shot it yet. Since your in Huntington, maybe a paying them a visit would get you the answers you're looking for.
     
  28. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    WOW! Very cool! I'm just realizing how far beyond this stuff is for me! HAHA! This is AWESOME information!! Sounds like I need to start reading up on single stage paint.

    Keep the info coming on single-stage paint, guys!

    Wow! Learning a TON from this thread!! :eek::eek: Again, agreeing with what someone said about the HAMB earlier, it's such a breath of fresh air to ask a question and get some great answers without a lot of BS getting in the way! Thank you EVERYONE! Keep the info coming! :cool::cool:
     
  29. SlowandLow63
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 5,957

    SlowandLow63
    Member
    from Central NJ

    Why do you think I stock two different PPG clears?!??!! :D :D Best trick in the world and they even have it in the tech sheets!
     
  30. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,998

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Okay... quit holding back! Speak up! Single stage paints. Ready.....

    ... GO!
     

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