Yesterday i went to see an france build Model B tudor the number on the engine was different than the engine nr stamped on the tag on the firewall so sometime the engine was changed.(the seller told me the car was restored mid eighties) The original engine nr was 5066835 but on the engine is the nr stamped AA1155705 I only have real crappy phone pics because it was pretty dark at that place. Hope you guys can help me out.
I just saw that my lens is scratched so thats how the pics became so shitty. The put an electrical fuel pump on the firewall.
there is a good photo of a B engine in this thread:http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=550&showall=1 you can see the fuel pump.
A engines have the oil tube that runs from the valve cover to the block, terminating close to where the B fuel pump would be. If it has a tube and no pump boss,it's A, if it has no tube and a fuel pump boss, it's B.
If the water neck is built into the water pump, Model B. If the water neck is bolted to the head independent of the water pump, Model A. OR...4-bolts on water pump, Model A...3 bolts is Model B. (at least for the head....)
To recap...lower front area of block in area in front of carburetor will have a tube headed to a ROUND boss in block with a bolt in the middle of the circle. If B, fuel pump or place for one, boss is a slanted quadrilateral with 2 bolts diagonally opposite. Ignore head, that interchanges in both ways. I think your intake manifold is B, but my eyes started hurting before I could focus! Clean that camera!
Exhaust manifold is angled "B" type, and it looks to have "B" head; but like Bruce said they interchange.
I tried to make the picture al little bit more sharp and smaller, still a shitty picture but it looks like the round boss and oil tube. I'm afraid it is a model A engine , do these engines hook up to a model b trans ? My plan for that car when i would buy it is just drive as is with the better B engine and trans but if it is an A engine i don't know what to do. Would an A engine any good in a deuce tudor ?
Does indeed appear to be B head, intake and exhaust on an A engine. The factory rated difference between them was 10hp. Increased compression, a better cam, and a slightly better carb and intake were the main reasons for the increase in HP. There were other significant changes such as crank main and Rod journal sizes as well as to the oiling system and others. Point of all that is that while it is not the correct engine, with some changes, it could perform similarly to a B.
If it runs reasonably well, it will do to mave the car around until you find a B, GAZ, or G28t,,,British, Germans, and Russians built B powered tucks lon after USA B's, into the 1950's for some variants...
With what a '32 is worth don't invest any money in the A engine as you will not get it back. Looks like a good place to start, how about some body pictures? Charlie Stephens
To Charlies point and to clarify my own, I would not suggest putting a bunch of cash in to the A engine, but if it has already had some upgrades, it should well serve the purpose until a suitable replacement can be located.
Hopefully these photos will help. First one is a Model A engine in a Model A. Second one is Model B engine in a Model A Third one shows the fuel pump block off detail of the Model B engine installed in a Model A. Fourth one is a Model B engine in a 1932 Model B. Sometimes it's nice to have a few Bangers around!!!
A couple of comments of the serial numbers you are finding. The "5066835" should have a star and "AB" or "B" in front of the number and it should be followed by another star. The serial number would then correspond to an engine/transmission produced at the Rouge plant in May of 1932. When the engine/transmission passed final inspection a number would have been stamped into a pad on the top of the flywheel housing. Thus the engine number was not actually on the engine. This number would then be stamped into the frame on the assembly line in three places, on the top of the left frame rail near the steering box where it could be read without removing anything and two other locations on top of the left frame rail where they could only be seen by removing the body from the frame. The prefix was frequently omitted on the two numbers that were stamped under the body. The number "AA1155705" is from a Model A engine produced in March of 1929 and would have been stamped into a pad on the left side of the engine near the water inlet. The fact that it has a prefix of "AA" means that the engine/transmission was originally intended to be used in a large truck. The same engine was used in the car and the "AA" prefix only told the assembly line that the engine had a 4 speed transmission for a truck. There was no serial number on the firewall. There was a tag on the firewall with a "body number" if the body was supplied by an outside supplier to Ford. This "body number" was not tracked and generally not used for registration (at least in the US). Charlie Stephens
You asked earlier if the Model A engine would bolt up to a Model B transmission, the answer is yes. Check to see if the transmission has a separate bell housing that bolts to the transmission (Model A) or if the housing is all one piece (Model B), no telling what has been done over the years. Anyone that would put a Model A engine in a '32 might do about anything. Sure like to see some body pictures, does it have suicide doors? Charlie Stephens
Thanks a lot for a the info. I wil go back in a few days and check a few things i learned from you guys. I wil take some new pictures with a good camera and post them over here. Al pics i have are real bad. I hope they only put the A engine in it and dit not butcher the rest of the car. Plans are to just drive it as it is till i finisch my sportcoupe. Maybe then i will go with a B engine or flathead V8. It has the euro body with the suïcide doors. Car is pretty nice but not to perfect to not change a few things from original. I hope it will al work out because i always wanted a 32
Here are some engine pics. it is a model A engine but i think it is a model B trans ? Seller says it is a running and driving car. Last pic is how it looks now but wat will be under the paint ....if somebody puts an A engine in a Model B wat more surprises wil come.
Trans is B. Look at the casting above the starter...USA B's had the serial stamped there. Most European countries I think required an engine number, stamped in the same pad where your A engine is numbered, which is left blank on most USA B engines. Also many countries over there required a brass plate on firewall with serial and lots of specifications. So, I have no idea if the bellhousing pad was stamped like in USA on cars with the other locations. By the way, and you should of course ignore criminal advice like this, if you acquire a USA B engine block that pad should be blank and not numbered or machined bare and renumbered as om most Model A's you see over here. This means it can be given a nice factory looking stamp with the readily available Ford-style stamps, perhaps easing your legal status, perhaps putting you in jail... Some British B's got Solex carbs, I think. I wonder if that is what you have there...
The engine is definitely A, no fuel pump and outside oil pipe. The oil pan is B (note that it extends under the flywheel housing. The flywheel housing and transmission are B. He did some work on the pan to get it to fit around the smaller rear main on an A engine, you might need a new pan when you get a B engine. The good pictures sure help. Charlie Stephens
Any chance your car came with a story about how it survived the war? That must be quite a story. Charlie Stephens
Let me start by saying I strongly recommend you leave the car a 4 cylinder. If you decide to go with a flathead V8 here are a few of the changes you will need to consider: The following are a few thoughts on changing from a 4 to a V8 in a 1932. I restored a Model B roadster in the early seventies. A couple of years later I decided I need a little more power and reliability (probably a bad decision) and installed a 4 cylinder Chevy II engine. When I made this change it required no irreversible changes and I kept all of the Model B parts. The following changes need to be made when replacing a Model B with a V8 (21 stud, others will require a few more things): Of course engine, motor mounts Muffler and exhaust system before muffler (same after) Radiator Radiator support rods Engine steady rods Hubcaps Starter switch (if it is early B with pull starter) Transmission (gears interchange but cases are different) Choke (B is a cable, V8 is a rod) Accelerator linkage Engine splash pans Gas line needs to be routed from right on Model B to left on V8 The B will have a few extra holes in the firewall pad from mounting the 4 cyl engine snubber Need to add emblem to headlight bar Need to accept the fact that the serial number (VIN) is for a 4 cylinder Interesting to note the increase in value for the car is about the same as the cost of making the change Charlie Stephens
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