Hot Rods Drug Home: 1917 Dodge Brothers Touring (& Halloween Yard Art)

So, I scored a 1917 Dodge Brothers Touring Car this weekend. It was too cheap for me to leave it 45 minutes from my house. So I rented a trailer and headed North, which was its own adventure, as it was the first time I'd pulled a trailer.

Anyway, here are the pictures I've got, I'll snap more this week. It's in decent shape for its age and what I paid for it. I don't have plans to get into working on it immediately, but I've got a couple ideas rattling around. I REALLY like the rear spring setup, so that's definitely going to be a feature in whatever I do with it.

I'm not sure if later spindles are compatible with this axle or if I'm going to need to find another axle for it. Probably staying with the parallel leaf setup if at all possible.

A warmed up flat six or straight 8 might be novel motivation, but it's way too far out to really go buy an engine for sure.

 

That front suspension isn't going to be strong enough for a heavier & more powerful engine. I think I'd graft in a model A front cross member and use a ford front end. It's going to be much easier to find parts for. Box the rails for extra strength, and add a stronger center cross member. The rear suspension might be OK, but use all new and stronger springs and related parts.

You must remember that when this car was originally built, the engine may have produced 30 HP, and was much lighter than an inline 6 or 8. The added weight and HP will twist that frame like a pretzel. Boxing and stronger cross members are a must.

I love those old Dodge Brothers tubs. Years ago I had a 21 set on model A rails.

 

Good point. I was considering the possibility of trying to use a F1/F100 or Econoline front end setup, springs and all. If that could work out, it would certainly be easier to source parts.

Plan was to send the rear elliptics to a spring shop and have them reconditioned at a minimum. The main leaf springs could probably just be replaced. I haven't closely inspected them yet. Another idea that crossed my mind was to hide a coilover setup under there and replace the parallel leaf springs with a radius rod setup (keeping the rear elliptics).

Boxing and crossmembers are indeed a must, yes. The rails are in pretty good shape, though there are reinforcing plates riveted on the inside under the cowl area that are pretty bad and need to be attended to.

The cowl looks better in photos than it actually is. Someone made an attempt at restoring it entirely in bondo, so that's going to be a chore to do right.

 

nothing wrong with parallel leafs up front, no need to make it cookie cutter with a ford style front. front axle might be worth looking into a replacment with a more 'modern' king pins style for ease in putting juice brakes on it, plus the added weight of a motor, better axle sounds good.

 

Hey, Pat;
The real early Dodge frames were actually hell for stout (esp for their size/cross-section), & ridiculously tough. Much tougher than Ford stuff. It was a toss-up as to whether the early Stude frames or Dodge were the toughest. They were the miners 1st choices back in the day, & even for awhile later, as both were so tough, they could be way overloaded w/ore, & still hold up, & live. Probably why they're hard to find in good shape, at least in the mining country - or so I'm told. Axle used the Elliot-type kingpin & spindle, iirc. Could get interesting adapting brakes - disc or otherwise -, but at least they have a good history in the circle-track dept in the 20's ->mid 30's. I'd keep it & adapt brakes. Makes for a much more interesting piece. I think the later Dodge/Chrys/etc tube axles, not necessarily the just dbl-dip one, are very close to fitting like a bolt in. & those can have ford spindles (->'48) adapted via the proper kingpin size, = use of easy brake adapter kits.
I'm kinda seeing an early *Dodge" poly or hemi... D: .
Or for a feather-weight mill, a late model (preferably Chrys product) 4-banger in genuine aluminum. (Shhh, not hamb-loved). But 2-300 hp would be just fine for a fun-runner.
Marcus...

 

I've got a cowl and front fenders for one. I'm guessing you're not running fenders though.


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That's what I'd thought. Like that picture floating around with 14' Dodge that has a BEAR strapped across the back.

I think they used this axle design far enough into the 30's for there to be at least a spindle with mounting holes for a backing plate to fit it. I don't KNOW for sure yet though. It might just be much easier to fit another axle on there. We'll see. Really what brakes I use is going to depend on who I have in mind when I build this one out; I have a buddy of mine in mind who'd want it to take his wife and kids out in. So with that in mind, I may go for discs and either a later mill under a hood or a vintage mill with an EFI unit. HAMB-Sacrilege, I know, but I promise it'll be barely noticeable if I do it that way.

I'm fairly set on a champ QC rear end. I think a Banjo is too Fordy and a Dana will clash visually. They also come up for sale used often enough up my way.

I haven't decided actually, but I'm leaning away from fenders. I might see how I like the look of just the rear fenders and some MC fenders up front though.

You should build a tub and make yourself a Modified with that cowl!

 

Those frames are pretty damn solid. Where the frame kicks out following the body lines actually has a doubler riveted in place for strength. at least the frame on my 1918 did. Hell of a lot stronger than a ford frame.

 

Indeed it does, however I need to pull those out and replace them. There's a rust sandwich in there.

 

Very cool score. I saw this on Craigslist too and thought that it'd be pretty sweet to have. I actually went back on CL a couple days later looking for the ad and wondered where it went.... now i know. I'm glad someone on here got it and now i can follow along and see what you do with it. Good Luck.

 

What kind of condition is the gas tank in? Interested in selling it?

 

It's going to be a year or two before I get to work on it, I just couldn't leave it 45 minutes away for what it was going for.

I gotta figure out what to do about the front door issue, since I want it to remain a 4 seater.

Option 1: Find front doors.

Option 2: remove the driver seat and center section; stretch the rear doors...

 

Since you're only going to get to work on this in a year or two i'd wait it out and see if you could find a set of doors for sale. I bet they're pretty rare and hard to find but you never know what will pop up on CL or ebay. On the other hand you could make your own doors, maybe even borrow a door to copy from someone.

 

I see them occasionally come up for sale. Folks usually have NO idea what they are and call them T doors, then wonder why they don't sell. The trick is figuring out if they're exactly the right match or not before dropping $200+ on a mismatched set from the internet.

What I may do if I don't have a set fall into my lap is trace the outline and hinge placement onto some posterboard and carry it around with me if I ever manage to get to a swap meet.

 

Go here for doors....just don't mention hotrods....
http://forums.aaca.org/f143/

 

Yeah, they don't seem like they'd be real friendly about that over there, let alone sell any parts.

I took a look and was able to at least snag some pictures so I know better what I'm looking for but didn't find any for sale. One of the key features is the interior mount hinges, the different radius's on the door bottoms, and the wood in the top.

 

Here are some glamour shots of the gas tank, just because I have them. It's pretty solid overall. The old repairs make for some entertainment value for sure; yes, that does appear to be arc welds with lead filler.

 

cool old touring. please don't ruin it with a Ford style front axle and spring. I think the coolest thing would be to use that funky axle if you can figure a way to get brakes on it.

 

Rest assured, that is Plan A. I really think a Ford/Wishbone front end would take away from this car.
Plan B is to use a more modern axle with the parallel leaves.

Those rear springs are most of why I had to have the car though.

 

the rear springs are crazy looking! I was looking at some antique cars at a show for pre war original cars the other week that had those springs like that. I was thinking they may be too springy in a HOT ROD...going around a turn at speed is probably a real adventure.

 

I agree, those springs were engineered for a time when there weren't as many roads as we think of them today. I've been thinking that potentially supplementing them with coilovers and or shocks linked to that rear shackle might be of some help controlling sway.

I've also had the idea of mounting the rear with radius rods/ladder bars of some sort and attaching those elliptics to the rear end on the back side of the tubes (like a later Ford only paralell).

 

rear leafs are easily remade and made to your specs. I just had a set made locally for a 32 chevy

 

Mid 30's Mopar front axles were tube and used the same type of spring set-up. The spring mounts come off and move easily if they are not the same width. They also had hydraulic brakes and are easy to get parts for. Could be a good swap and would look right.

 

Pat;
I think Chrys used the Elliot-design into the early 30's, at least on the I-beam axles. Should be adaptable, & probably has a place for brake mounting on the spindle back. Could always weld on ears to spindle back, but be sure welder can do aircraft-quality welding, & have it checked - mag-d/x-ray'd/etc. Spindles were not crap quality. On rear leafs, yup - kinda nutty, but I've an old, ~'13-'15 Maxwell frame, f&r springs + front axle that has the same 3/4 elliptical springs. As you surmised, a new main leaf set would best be in order. I'd use a decent anti-roll-bar(if you use a single-bar-type, you can lengthen/shorten the arms to change the resistance - up to a point.), both front & rear, + some high quality shocks that are dbl-adjustable(min). Should do well to control bounce & roll. Can figure out rates once car gets most of components in place & assembled.
Marcus...

 

Here's the axle saltracer219 is talking about. I scored this fir my 28 Dodge Coupe. It's almost a direct fit for my car. I love the look and you can adapt Ford spindles with little trouble.

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I'm hoping I can find a spring shop in my town that answers their phone or email. I struck out on that trying to contact big truck axle shops.

I had considered the tube axles as an option, but I don't know anything about them yet, nor do i know anything about Elliot-design brakes at this point. @nrgwizard or @340 Power , do you have any more information or links you could share with me on the brake options?

I'd rather replace the spindles & possibly the axle than get into modifying the spindles. I'd rather just pass them along to a restorer and use something that was meant to take brakes.

 

I had one of the dodge axles and adapted for spindles to it real easy. I picked up one of the royal king pin set up with the roller bearings and took the king pin OD and turned it down to match the axle ID and then machined a small flat on it for the set screw locking it in place.

 

My plan is to change spindles not modify. The adapting is just the kingpin. You can put a ford setup with disc brakes on there. Other than resizing the kingpin its pretty simple. Speedway has complete setups for discs.

Posie springs were recommended to me and I am waiting on a catalogue.

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here's one on a 1927 Chrysler ? with some sort of brakes. has a 27 plate, and I think the grille said Chrysler.

 

Pat;
There is some info w/pics in Tex Smiths' 'How to Hot Rod Chryslers' book series. I'll see iffen I can find mine, but iirc, there was an article (feature) on a 29, & a 32 4dr, that the guys had adapted late model brakes to the early spindles. & I'm thinking that one guy did drums, other guy did discs - using mopar parts. Also a '17(?) Dodge screen-side pu, but I think that guy used the later mopar tube axle(& there's more than one version of the mopar tube axle, but all are neat. Some have more bends, or in different directions, depending on orig usage). It's been awhile since I've read thru that book, so memory might be crossed up, , but if you can get one, it's actually worth it, even at full cover price. Amazon or Half-Price-Books is a good place to start.
Marcus...