Technical Dropped Stock Radiators in Front of Crossmember

I was mocking up a project I'm putting together a couple weeks ago and my neighbor was over offering his wisdom.

I've got a 27 T touring cowl on an A frame and a 31 radiator and shell. In the stock location, this is a pretty bucktooth look. I'm not interested in re-coring or buying a chopped radiator.

What my neighbor suggested was to put the radiator in front of the crossmember. He explained that when he was a teenager doing this stuff in the 50's (on the East Coast), that what they would do is cut the outlet, make a copper box to come up tight along the radiator, and solder it all back together. I have only so far found one example of this and it was on a radiator listed on eBay recently.



I'd like to see pictures and descriptions of the process on here if anybody has done this at any point. I'm going to grab my neighbor when he's not busy remodeling his shop some day and likely attempt it with his guidance.

There have been some posts that alluded to this already but I haven't found any that show, specifically, the method described.

 

Bump for the morning

 

Bump for the Fall?

 

Modelengineeringco has these

 

Oh yeah, I've seen those before.

I'm still kinda surprised nobody's piped up with more old homebuilt pictures and stories though.

 

I'd be real careful about moving the radiator and grill shell ahead of the axle.
While it *was* done back in the day, aesthetically, it looks awkward.

 

I've had to do this very thing to my cabrio radiator. The body being sectioned meant I has to lower the radiator somehow. I couldn't find anyone local to cut it down (2-3 inches) and just couldn't spend $800 on a new one that was already shorter. I did manage to have a shop solder two 90 degree fittings on the bottom tank, raising the outlet three inches. The advantage I had was that the radiator sat on flanges ahead of the crossmember. I did have to cut them out so the radiator would "telescope down". I simply built new brackets to mount to the existing holes in the frame. I'll see if I have some pics that will show some of this. The radiator is in the shop now being repaired where the grill rubbed a place in a solder joint!! The pic I found will show the notch on one side of the frame. Remember, your not building a restored car, it is a custom built hot rod. So, there are some things you don't have to worry about like will a stock hood fit. Let your imagination have plenty of freedom. Tim

 

What Just Gary Said....

......& Maybe You did already.
Mount the shell where you plan on putting the radiator..
If you're gonna run a hood...make a cardboard one...Walk around and look at it..!

I tried it and it looked awkward on mine...IT CAN LOOK GOOD...If done right on the right car...
Like Tom Cobbs Roadster..(in front of axle & spring)

 

I've had good results with the radiator in front but it has to be in proportion to the body and engine. I made my own "Snorkles" from copper tube and soldered it so it was tight to the Radiator.

Other cars with the radiator in front of the cross member is Bobbleeds 32, and Evels Coupe "Live Wire".

 

Hey, Pat;
Yup, your neighbor is right. That was done a lot on the east coast - & is a big part of the "east-coast-look". It usually give a buck-toothed look to the car, & then for good measure, add in the '48 type spring in front of axle (usually shortening the wheel-base on top of it), + the heavy channeled car/truck, well = ECL. At one time (40+ years ago) I sorta liked the look, but no more. Too many things happening visually, & virtually all are hard on the eyes. Remember: **What has been seen, cannot be unseen!** Now, this can be made to work, but you've only got a couple of choices. You have to move the cross-member back to keep the rad in the original position (or close to it), + then deal w/the spring behind the axle issue (to get the front wheels in the correct orig location - or close to it, because the rad/shell will be in front of the axle). & keeping the longer rad n shell when channeling a car is worth it for a lot of reasons, cooling n aesthetics being 2. The proportions are hard to pull off well, but ohh so worth it when it happens.
About the only other choice is to lengthen the wheelbase n frame so the rad n shell + wheels are in the proper proportions. Which has its' advantages, too.
Well, third choice is to get the "coveted" East Coast Look.
Marcus...

 

You said that very diplomatically, nrgwizard.

 

Evel's 'Live Wire' Model A has the radiator out in front of the crossmember. search it out on the HAMB and study it.

His car has a ton of east coast flair with out going 'Full ECL'. its proportionally balanced and there is nothing awkward about it. most people wouldn't even notice unless they were told.

 

Those are cool, but they take up a lot of space and shove the radiator out even further. Like around 3" by the time everything gets added in.

 

Hopefully this one will be right aesthetically. It's not just moving the radiator forward, like others have said it's all kinds of messy. Axle has to move forward to look right. Headlights, well I'm still playing with that. Didn't want to fool with a goofy water connection so in turn had to cut the shell. Which means high dollar short radiator, but I'm no high dollar guy, so I'll sacrifice an aluminum one and try to hide what it is.


Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

Years ago I put a stock 32 radiator and shell in front of stock A cross member and dropped it down a bit running a flathead. Car was a 28 A highboy with A frame, to access the bottom hose I notched the front edge of the cross member about a inch and laid a piece of notched pipe in and nicely finished it off. Gave it a nice look and no kink to the hose. You have to watch the hood length and proportions carefully or it looks funny.

 

Just my 2 cents, put a T rad and shell on it. They are shorter and in my opinion a T should have a T shell.

 

I had a local radiator shop do it for my A and it works fine. Some early Ford tractor radiators had it too , you can probably google to find photos.

 

Whether this works or not depends upon how much awkwardness the owner will tolerate.

 

OK, don't everybody laugh. I recently had the same issue with my speedster: 30/31 radiator and shell that had to move forward and down. Wound up sealing off the original outlet and adding a 90-degree outlet to the bottom of the tank. The lower hose now passes between the spring and axel. It's kind of Rube Goldberg, and I'm still tweaking to allow for spring travel and steering, but it looks like it will work. Of course, I'm running a hood, and with the shell so low, nobody can see this little bit of weirdness unless they lie on the ground.

 

The lower hose now passes between the spring and axel.

Keep us posted

 

I have Model A and my radiator and grill shell are mounted in front of the axle. I like the idea that you want to do the same. IMHO hot rods with a shorter looking wheel base look great!

We had to cut the lower water neck off my aluminum radiator and have a 90 degree neck welded on. As you know, you'll have one hell of an upward angle to make to get that bottom hose on. It can be done.

Here are some photos of how we mounted my radiator and grill shell in front of the axle. I understand you have a stock frame/stock height, so just fabricate a radiator mount that drops lower than what mine does.


Labeled #1 is my Model A frame horns and a spreader bar.

Labeled #2 is the mount for my radiator. We fabricated this mount from steel and welded it to the frame. After grinding and skimcoat it looks nice .

Labeled #3 is my cross-member where obviously the front spring and axle are loctated.

Another view of the radiator mount:


I'm not sure if any of my photos will help you or applies to your build. However, I am certain you can mount your radiator and grill shell in front of your axle and it will look good.....not buck toothed

Here are some photos of hot rods that I think look pretty cool. Axle behind grill and radiator:
My Coupe

 

So I snapped a few more photos. So, where you see the bolt, that's the radiator mount. Notice the lower water neck and how the hose comes down to it. behind that is the spring and axle. The hose goes up and over the cross member (next photo) and into the waterpump.



Top view. We purchased the hose at Napa.

 

Really nice job above^^^^^^^ and I wish I had photo's of the ones I've done... they're tight to the front cross member and have a ninety degree running parallel to the top of the cross member so an average hose can slide on without contorting it onto the lower fitting.

 

Thank you, wingnutz. Hopefully it offers some kind of help to patmanta, too.

 

Thanks guys, keep'em coming! Particularly if any of you come across pictures of these setups from the early days.

I'm going with a different radiator and probably a track nose of some sort. I haven't test fit the radiator yet but it's for a flathead, so I'd be doing two drop tubes if I have to move it forward. I've also got some spring ahead bones that would certainly give it the east coast look, but I may decide to add hangers on another set I've got and go spring-behind so I can have more control of the wheel to radiator relationship.

All of this would probably be moot on a quarter elliptic front end setup, I'd wager.

 

Hey, Pat;
Forgot to mention another ECL item: the headlight placement. Make sure to put the leading edge of the headlight near the mid to rear edge of the grille shell, so's the rad/grille sits out proudly in front. I'm not being funny - it was very typical, in addition to the other things I mentioned. Not sure how serious you are about recreating some given 'regional' look. Track noses give a different look, but even there, seems to be a lot of the same similarities in the styling points in the West vs East Look.
Marcus...

 

I'm prepping to move my flathead radiator forward of the crossmember and drop it down so the lower necks are below the spring but above the axle. I have a high dollar radiator with a shrouded electric fan, so I'm going this route to get more clearance in front of the blower-drive and also bring the shell down to the now lowered cowl height. Hose connections on the flattie might get a little interesting but Im a retired pipefitter so I'll come up with something custom, perhaps some nice stainless tube....

 

You guys realize that the axle moves up and down while the radiator stays put right?

 

I'm not committed to anything with what I'm building right now other than the frame, body, rear end and engine. I'm starting over with what I've got in my shop so I'm starting with a nearly clean slate.

I'm definitely interested in using ECL elements for sure, but I'm not necessarily going for all the talking points on my build. My academic interest in the subject is still strong however and I'm still particularly interested in seeing how early East Coast rods were built up front in regards to Radiator/Spring/Axle relationships.