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Does my car say I'm cheap and easy?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tommy, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,738

    tommy
    Member

    This has nothing to do with your bank roll. I'm not comparing wallets so don't start.

    If you are building your first hot rod, by all means use the KISS system...Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't try to build a Hilborn injected Hemi your first time out. That doesn't mean you have to build a kit car with everything a bolt on mailorder solution which is the expensive way to build a hot rod.

    I saw a model A yesterday at the show with the proverbial electric fan. I hate electric fans. It was held in place by 4 through the radiator core plastic retainers...4 3/4" plastic blocks on the front of an A grill...cheap? yeah, easy? yeah cool...I don't think so!

    [​IMG]

    How did the oldtimers cool a potent Olds in a channeled roadster before electric fans? Here's one guys solution. It's probably hard on water pump bearings but it doesn't say cheap and easy. It doesn't say store bought expensive either.

    I'm not trying to insult the guys with one wire alternators and electric fans on their "period" hot rods. (I might tease them a little:D) What I'm trying to pass on is a little challenge. Plan out the build so that an electric fan isn't the only easy solution. Take the time to learn a little bit about generators and mount that voltage regulator proudly on the firewall. Ever see a billetmobile with a V/reg.? One wire alternators were made for billetmobiles not hot rods.

    [​IMG]

    You should be thinking about what kind of turn signals you are going to run while you are still mocking up the overall design with 2x4s and cinder blocks. Don't wait until a week before the maiden voyage and say oh shit let me bolt on those Taiwan pieces of shit. These are probably reproduction cowl lights but I admire the planning put into their use.(not money... planning) There is a clever well thought out access door in the boxing plate that was engineered when the frame was being built.

    I hope you all take this as a challenge to put more thought and effort into your hot rod rather than take the cheap and easy way out. Some early planning using old parts that are available to you can save you lots of cash for that hot rod.

    Those cool rat rods that jump out of the crowd with all the old parts with lots of patina, are all thought out to the tee as they are going together. The ones that are slapped together show it. The cool ones have all the subtleties of a well executed plan. It's no accident of fate.

    We used to have an expression...quick and dirty. It meant it was a sell out to well thought out and clean.

    I hope this doesn't start a shit storm but the next time you go to bolt a part on your car ask yourself does this make my car, therefore me, look cheap and easy? I don't want to piss people off just spark some thought and maybe some cool well planned rides.

    If it works maybe we'll get more questions on how did you solve a problem instead of who has the web address of the "me too" parts store.
     
  2. Hellbent hotrodder
    Joined: Mar 13, 2005
    Posts: 42

    Hellbent hotrodder
    Member

    I love it when I jump on the HAMB and find some one who can put my thoughts into words! (I really bombed english):)
     
  3. I agree to some extent. I can see using certain items for the sake of reliability when your car is a true drive, and isn't that what it's really all about?

    However, for me being the cheap bastard I am I HATE to spend money for something that isn't exactly what I want. Plus, I really prefer to build things myself. I love the challenge of tackling a problem, engineering a solution and then producing it. Sure, sometimes I want to throw the whole thing in the trash and buy the easy way out, but when the job is complete and the solution works as planned you can't beat that feeling of accomplishment. And, I've gained some knowledge that i didn't have before and nobody can take that away from me.
     
  4. C9
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,514

    C9
    Member Emeritus

    Good one Tommy.

    Reason a lot of the quick and dirty stuff gets done is cuz it's quick and easy.
    A lot of it seems to happen near the end of the build.

    Surprising too, how many electric fans are seen on cars that have plenty of room for a mechanical fan.


    Not patting myself on the back here, but I went to the trouble to remove the Deuce Factory frame crossmembers and build new ones solely to get the engine back a couple of inches so I could use a mechanical fan in my 32.

    It was a lotta work, but worth it.


    Looks like the Olds engine in the Model A pictured could have gone into the firewall 2-4" and there would have been plenty of room for a mechanical fan.
    I realize a couple of things could be going on here . . . back in the day cutting into the firewall was not commonly done on street driven cars.
    Drag race cars, another story entirely.

    Some think that cutting into the firewall impinges on footroom.
    Not so.
    I've tried on DRD57's chopped A coupe and there's plenty of legroom behind the wheelbarrow pan firewall.
    The same is true for my 31 roadster with 4" firewall recess.
    In fact the seat could go back another 3-4" without problems.

    Still thinking about how to do the turn signals though....:D
     
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  5. muffman58
    Joined: Oct 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,000

    muffman58
    Member

    I am forced to aggree with you guys because of all things ,exhaust issues. Doing exhaust work everyday I looked at my rod and decieded to go the easy way out and put on sprint headers[ store bought ] Of course now that there on there they dont really look right. I`m pissed becuase I was gonna go with a lakepipe, but nobody had a kit for 302 Ford that I could find. I could have bought the flange kit & fabbed up the rest, BUT NO!!! I had go the EASYWAY. They say hind-sight is 20/20, but I`m not done yet & have come to the conclusion that lake pipes are the shit, no matter how much trouble they will be to build, I`m a gonna have em!
     
  6. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 12,246

    Paul
    Editor

    cheap and easy?

    why does promiscuity always get a bad rap?
     
  7. xadamx
    Joined: Apr 18, 2003
    Posts: 1,155

    xadamx
    Member

    There are so many different variables that dictate what you can do and what you have to do. Heavily channeled Model A's are different than a '32 hiboy or a dedicated dry lakes car. I have a model A that is channeled and the frame stepped in front and z'd in the back. Granted, there may not have been a lot of channeled cars or z'd frames in the 40's(which is the period I really like) and there definitely weren't electric fans. But with my setup, cutting into the firewall and recessing it to move the motor back would have made using my stock gas tank impossible. I could have used a stock fan BUT I would have had to move the radiator WAY forward, and I think that looks worse than an electric fan. As it sits, I had to move it forward 2.5 inches just to get the electric to fit! My point being: Some people have to work with what they have to achieve their ultimate goal...some have money, some have technical expertise and can weld and build, some have both, some have neither! I think the more cars you build, the more patient and deliberate you get...and you show your uniqueness and ingenuity in the stuff that matters.
     
  8. BELLM
    Joined: Nov 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,583

    BELLM
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Turnsignals? If I had turn signals I wouldn't have any use for my left arm.
     
  9. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 3,667

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    Hold the wheel while you shift? :p

    I agree with you Tommy. All the way. It's not just about electric fans and turn signals, it's about having a well thought out car. Sometimes it's a little too easy to open the catalog.

    Even if your working on a tight budget sometimes you gotta save up and bite the bullet. Whether that means buy the better part, or have something fabricated, better judgement and quality will outshine bigger bank accounts when the day is through. All the money in the world won't build the best car if you don't have a clear vision.

    Friends and the Hamb are a good resource too. Sometimes you need a kick in the head and have someone ask WTF are you doing? And hopefully, provide a better solution or idea.
     
  10. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,738

    tommy
    Member

    Actually the issue with the Olds fan was elevation not front to back room. The grill was lowered for the right look.(imaginary hood line) On the water pump, the fan would be above the radiator and grill. Channeling does add issues. The fan elevation was determined and belts and pulleys were engineered to make it work.
     
  11. racer5c
    Joined: Nov 30, 2002
    Posts: 2,212

    racer5c
    Member

    Not on the same subject but Hey Tommy, I saw you in 2 count em TWO magazines this month!!! Brought back some memories of what a fun time the Jalopy Showdown was. Can't wait till next year!
     
  12. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,738

    tommy
    Member

    Actually the Deuce has been in 4 different mags in the last 4 months...but who's counting:D. I'll be signing autographs next year, but because you knew me "before" I'll give you the discount rate.:D

    It's a good thing I didn't wash it!:D

    I'm looking forward to it. Maybe I can do a little better now that I've got the feel of the car.
     
  13. xadamx
    Joined: Apr 18, 2003
    Posts: 1,155

    xadamx
    Member

    I really like your car...one of my favorites.

    Adam
     
  14. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,474

    4tford
    Member

    I been reading all the post on this thread and yeah I used a 1 wire alternator and an electric fan on my 40 ford. But after cramming a 392 hemi between the frame rails of a forty ford I could not fit a mechanical fan in the 3 3/4 inch space to the radiator. Sometimes the only solution is an electrical fan if the main reason is getting the drivetrain you want in the car and being able to drive it. Sometimes the electric fan and alternator are the only solutions not just the easiest. I'm still having one hell of a time getting the exhaust in this car it is supposed to go thru the holes in the cross members but that can't be done because of the brake booster and lines on the driver's side so i'm a little low right now.
     
  15. Flathead Youngin'
    Joined: Jan 10, 2005
    Posts: 3,531

    Flathead Youngin'
    Member

    Great advice on the lights......

    I was just thinking the other day......"If I don't buy the headlights with the turn signal built in (guides??) what the heck am I going to use......that doesn't look like a 70's motorcycle turn signal?"
     
  16. muffman58
    Joined: Oct 24, 2003
    Posts: 1,000

    muffman58
    Member

    Is there anyway you can post a pic from underside the car ? I had just recently done a 36 Ford from the headers back. Maybe I, or some of the other guys can give you some advise? I mean isn`t that what this board is for?
     
  17. RenoRat
    Joined: Aug 5, 2004
    Posts: 621

    RenoRat
    Member
    from Oxnard,Ca

    Ok I agree with some of that but... The eletric fans when people live in a hot climate sometimes they are necissary! Cuz without em my 50 ford would overheat fast! I drive the crap outta mine daily but for relibity purposes I need a letric' fan on mine it keeps it 10-15 degrees cooler...
     
  18. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,474

    4tford
    Member

    I can shoot some pictures tomorrow and post. Right now i'm below the frame with the pipes and mufflers. I built this exhaust myself but really need to do this thing right so I'm not scraping on driveways. Any ideals would be welcome.
     
  19. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 3,667

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    4t, might want to start a new thread, get more exposure, but we're hear to help.

    I notice everyone steps up to defend their electric fan. I don't think tommy is knocking electric fans, it's deeper than that. It's about cutting corners, it's about thinking ahead and spending a little more time than normal, taking the care to make parts fit together as if they were meant to. Some guys make it look easy, some guys never get it right.
     
  20. bills model a
    Joined: Aug 27, 2004
    Posts: 305

    bills model a
    BANNED

    i hear CHEAP AND EASY
    IN FACT ITS YELLIN AT ME
    but is way cool as well
    it all depends what your goin for
    im goin for a driver and a 1 wire alternator is in the plans
    no doubt
    as well as a smallblock chevy
    just call me cheap and easy
     
  21. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 3,479

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member
    from Union, NJ

    I agree with you guys. It has been my experience that it takes almost as much time to sit there are scratch your head while staring at the problem as it does to actually fix the problem.

    Sometimes the hard way is the easy way in the long run. It takes more time to do something wrong, finally admit to yourself that you fucked it up, then pull it all apart and redo it correctly than to just do it the right way the first time.
     
  22. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,738

    tommy
    Member

    No offense to anyone. The electric fan and alternator thing are just my personal pet peeves...but:D one of my first hot rod heros drove a chopped 40 Ford convertible with a Chrysler or DeSoto hemi in it about 1960. Electric fans weren't around back then. I can't tell you how he did it. I was only 16. I can only say that it was done.

    They didn't have hot rod under the floor power boosters either so the only challenge was the master cyinder and the clutch linkage. You might be able to relocate the hole in the X frame to get past the booster and then duck back to where the original holes carried the exhaust. Just a thought.

    I'm pretty sure there were flathead Fords in Arizona too during that time. I think it got hot back then too.:D My flathead runs 180 in the summer cooled by an original 32 radiator and it's non-pressurized cap. I do admit that I'm running a non-period stainless flex fan. a compromize I can live with. I probably don't need it. I heard all the wives tales and used it for insurance.

    [​IMG]

    There is no way that I could live with this. I don't care how fast it is.

    Different people will answer the same question I'm asking with different opinions. That's cool. Different people can make compromises that others can't live with. That's cool too. I'm just laying down the challenge to plan your build better and if it's so easy and everybody does it that way, maybe with a little more thinkin' you can come up with a better way to make your car unique from all the rest. Believe me lots of people will notice. I'm just rude enough to say it in public. I'd never say it to your face unless you asked me for my honest opinion. I know what you're saying... nobody asked you.:D Just food for thought.
     
  23. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 3,667

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    That is pretty fugly. In the early '60's my dad put together a model A with a stock car flathead. When the fan didn't fit, he left it off. He said he never had any problem with it overheating, but he never drove in any traffic.
     
  24. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 7,843

    flatheadpete
    Member

    That thing really blows. I'm gonna have nightmares tonite.
    My Flatty t-bucket overheated this weekend in 90 degree traffic. 1st time it happened and hopefully the last. I'm planning a fan shroud to hide my (gulp) electric fan. Or maybe I can make one for the mechanical fan and do away with the ugly electric job. My generator has yet to fail me and when it does, I'll fix it. My turn signal always works. If I break my left arm, I'm screwed. Just have to cruise the wagon instead of the hot rod.
     
  25. roadstar
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 4,176

    roadstar
    Member

    Hey Tommy, i bet that Model A roadster with the fan out front will never have as much fun with his car as we have;)

    Also this is a great post to make people think alittle. That fan set up in the channeled car with the Olds engine was brilliant!

    See you around the Dirt track my friend:D
     
  26. I think we are talking about a car with an open engine, where it is obvious that you have a huge black plastic cage hanging off the back of the radiator, or front in some of the worst examples.
     
  27. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,474

    4tford
    Member

    I agree if you can get a mechanical fan in you should do it. But there are times when you can't and that should not be looked at as a cheap and easy solution the overall package is what needs to be looked at there is no less planning or thought used just because the end result was a electric fan. I am not defending electric fans (they don't help the looks) there is just sometimes when they are needed to do the job. I agree that the key is planning but sometimes it comes down to what each person is capable of also.
     

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  28. You've said it all my friend. There's nothing to add to your statement that could say it any better for me :)
     
  29. Now ya see it, fugly:

    [​IMG]

    Now ya don't, not very well anyway:) That silver tranny cooler has GOT to go. Hideous.
    [​IMG]
     
  30. C9
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,514

    C9
    Member Emeritus


    At first look I thought you could go forward with the radiator and gain some room.
    Even if you did, it looks like the fan would hit that black thing that looks to be a harmonic dampener (below the water pump pulley and in front of the crank
    pulley).

    I don't have a problem with an electric fan if that's the only way to do it.
    Out front though?
    Come on.

    I'm wondering if there is also an electric fan between radiator and engine in the rose colored car that Tommy posted?


    Somewhere along the line, some people have learned or decided or whatever that an electric fan is the official hot rod way to do it and I think that's where the electric fans used in cars that do have room for a mechanical fan come from.

    I wish I had some pics of my all-time favorite weird cooling setup I used to see at the Saturday night rod runs in sunny California.

    Guy had a very nicely done 49-52 Chevy pickup with SBC.
    For a fan shroud he installed a flat piece of aluminum flat onto the radiator core on the back side.
    The flat "shroud" had a hole cut in it to match the fan.

    I asked and he reported that it worked fine.
    I dunno how since at least half the radiator had no air flow.
    I do note that the pickup was only seen at car shows and rod runs.

    Runner up to that was the trans cooler bolted to a flat sheet metal panel on a pickup I bought.
    It was to the right of the radiator, facing the oncoming air and there was no way air could flow through it.
    I cut the panel away behind it and the trans temp dropped 5-10 degrees on the highway.

    I'm amazed at the things some people do.
    I guess the next step is to build a cast iron airplane.
     

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