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Technical Caveman tech - building a bellhousing for a flathead cadillac

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by zibo, Dec 7, 2008.

  1. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    We nicknamed it the turtle...
    [​IMG]
    lotsa time between the welds, little 2" runs.
    [​IMG]

    This 1/4" plate welds so nice.
    [​IMG]
    The bigger gaps have a couple passes...

    TP
     
  2. Flipper
    Joined: May 10, 2003
    Posts: 3,395

    Flipper
    Member
    from Kentucky

    I hope this thing shows in the finished car.
     
  3. ray
    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 3,791

    ray
    Member
    from colorado

    a rotary table is not necessary, use a boring head, heck for a hole that size you could use a regular flycutter and careful adjustment to get the disired diameter.
     
  4. ray
    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 3,791

    ray
    Member
    from colorado


    the factory wasn't dealing with blocks that had been line bored, along with bellhousings made by some aftermarket company either. their parts were held to close tolerances in the first place. after years of abuse, it is good cheap insurance to check it while assembling it, rather than getting it all buttoned up and on the road to find you have a problem. the best engine builders don't get to be the best by saying "well it was good enough for the factory!"
     
  5. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    This is a great tech feature,, I say Zibo is the man. It brings back memories of a friends 39 chev coupe with a 348 mated to a 37 lasalle trans with spacers made of pipe, flat washers and square nuts. now that was caveman. Oh yes,, there was a piece of radiator hose that kept the release bearing from slipping to far back.
     
  6. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    I'm working on the clutch-arm guys,
    its kinda tricky and works been a little hectic,
    so although a hydraulic one can be thrown in there with just a couple line holes.
    I think thats kinda cheating!

    http://www.mcleodind.com/application_guide_pgs/HYDTOB_BoltOn.html

    [​IMG]

    i'm gonna make it a hard-linkage.

    Hopefully get some time this weekend...
    [​IMG]

    I did need to get the engine/tranny actually mounted though.
    So at least now I know exactly the space the arm/linkage will have.

    (actually I had screwed up and the front x-member arms were too long!
    I had to shorten them 4+ inches to clear the starter bubble...doh!)

    TP
     
  7. 55chieftain
    Joined: May 29, 2007
    Posts: 2,188

    55chieftain
    Member

    " It's so easy even a caveman could do it" . Great tech. I hope it all works out for you. Will all the differant planes and angles welded together , would the bellhousing need to be stress relieved by heating it up and letting cool down ? Anyone?

    Some of this tech will help me get my saginaw on my flat 6 Pontiac. At least I have a bell housing to work with, I just need to adapt the trans. It looks something like your initial plate would be a good starting point.
     
  8. Caveman Equipped (tm)

    Nice work.
     
  9. I wouldn't bother.
     
  10. nailheadroadster
    Joined: Jun 7, 2006
    Posts: 1,525

    nailheadroadster
    Member

    Amazing zibo! Great work and thank you for sharing in such a detailed manner.
     
  11. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Not bad. Just wondering if you could've found one already done for all the work you put into it. I know when I do a swap I try and research all stock(and available) bells, adapters, before DYI starts.
     
  12. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Thanks guys again!

    This is basically 2+ years of subconscious planning!
    Definitely researched the heck out of it,
    thats why figured I could do as bad a job as some of the ones some guys have bought!

    TP
     
  13. fantastic article dude! take a bow. worked with a super sharp mechanic that built a man-lift and built a bellhousing to use a gm 4 cyl in it. the pic's are impressive but after seeing one in person built the method your using is amazing! one thing to remember most of the early engines were low rpm units so that helps keep vibrations to a minimum. the hyd. throwout bearing ain't cheating just smart!
     
  14. Hot Rod Michelle
    Joined: May 3, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    Hot Rod Michelle
    Member

    Even after seeing it in person, its hard to believe. Cool Frankenstein bell housing though.
     
  15. ZIBO - After this audacious project , I think your next Tech article should be building an engine from scratch !!!! I mean , how hard can it be ?
     
  16. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Really GREAT job, gives everyone incentive to create. Do the caddy front mounts go on the V or front by the timing cover?



    Ago
     
  17. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

  18. Edian
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 59

    Edian
    Member
    from Idaho

    buetiful, i've always thought about doing this, but im glad to see someone actaully has the balls to do it, and post it too, hope it works out alright
     
  19. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    moved to next page...
     
  20. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,394

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    I said it before and I will say it again nice work and you are sure not scared of a challenge. Typical Cadillac flathead owner.
    Well done buddy.
     
  21. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Hi guys thanks for reminding me I need to finish this by the 15th!

    So I had to install the whole chelada to see where the arm should go,
    Fortunately used the rear tranny mounts (see previous pages),
    which cleared up the bellhousing...
    [​IMG]
    found a perfect spot for the hole.

    Then had to take it all apart,
    a real bummer cause the fenders etc made it look like a car.
    but was able to weld INSIDE the bellhousing finally...
    [​IMG]
    I figured doing symmetrical passes would minimize warping,
    (like they would counteract each other)
    This took a while to do,
    cause i took a couple breaks so it wouldn't tweak from the heat.
    Its pretty strong now!

    And just to make sure,
    figured i'd throw it on this mill I never use...
    I'm glad its a big one cause it hit the base right at the end of the last pass!
    [​IMG]
    Not sure if this was the right cutter but its the only one I had.
    Now the surprising part is it was about .015 " off!
    It looks like alot in the picture but the bit was chipped and it would leave a burr.

    Needless to say if this mill wasn't immediately available,
    I wouldn't have surfaced it.

    Yeah I'm sure you guys noticed I jonesed out and grinded and painted it
    (the flash makes it look turquioise but its really "detroit diesel" almost like the caddy)
    I always liked the prepainted-then machined look,
    plus its easier to see where the surfacing starts...

    I had machined the 2 side "reveals" but one side had blended in during the surfacing,
    so of course I had to redo it...
    [​IMG]
    and also cut out the hole.

    Now the fun part is figuring the clutch/throwout arm...6 days...(actually nights!)

    chow...

    TP
    (reposted this so you don't have to go to the previous page)
     
  22. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,582

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Looks so great. Dig the color.

    BTW, you need a fly cutter. Easy thing for you to make. (and yeah, I would have just used the end mill too if it was what I had on hand at the time)

    Again, great post.
     
  23. thechopperguy
    Joined: Oct 27, 2007
    Posts: 149

    thechopperguy
    Member

    Very impressive job!
     
  24. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,893

    Mart
    Member

    Zibo = ruler.
     
  25. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Kevin, that fly-cutter looks dangerous, but exactly what I needed...

    Ok,
    been real busy at work but had to squeeze this in by the 15th,
    so workin the night hours on it (and a little day today!)
    [​IMG]
    made a couple clutch-arm templates, and found one that worked, so cut it out...


    welded it up...
    [​IMG]

    not pretty but strong...
    [​IMG]
    looked like it'll work...
    now the pivot.

    TP
     
  26. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    ok,
    ya know what,
    first I need to show you all this grinding table I had to make.
    There was so much grinding,
    and the other side of the shop had an aluminum project in it,
    so didn't want to contaminate it, so whipped this out really quick, out of scrap...
    [​IMG]
    there is a "chispa-deflector"so most of it bounces down into here...
    [​IMG]
    don't have a vaccuum hole in it, and i've dropped some things like a drill bit in it,
    but its a work in progress!
    And man it really helps keep the area cleaner.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Ok so where were we,

    here's the pivot...
    a stainless steel piece of flat-bar, welded with 309 rod.
    [​IMG]

    and here's the finished arm, with the pivot stopper and lock...
    [​IMG]

    this is it installed. it doesn't fall off when upside down, which is good.
    [​IMG]

    there is alot of travel. Real smooth too.
    Figured the smartest way was to take the input-shaft-snout off and place it in the hole,
    alot easier to work with flat on the table, than vertical on the engine.
    [​IMG]
    Will still need to drill some holes in the linkage end, but want to wait til its installed.
    Also need to drill'n'tap the starter holes,
    but supposedly there is a smaller starter that might work, so will wait just in case.

    [​IMG]
    So there you have it!

    TP
     
  27. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,487

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Too cool Zibo!
    I hope this one takes the prize!
     
  28. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    Could you have the pivot and arm heat-treated to make them stronger? I'd be a little worried about the pivot wearing over time.

    (okay, probably A LOT of time, but still. The pivot ball in my '62 Suburban was worn down to a little cone. That had 40 years and untold miles on it, but the pivot is a wear point, regardless of type.)

    Great looking work. It's amazing what you can do when nobody tells you "You can't do that."

    -Brad
     
  29. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,361

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    Hey Brad,
    I was thinking the same thing,
    so the 2 pegs the throwout bearing rests on are stainless,
    the pivot "bar" is stainless,
    and the pivot "cup" on the arm is stainless,
    all welded with 309 tig rod which can mix mild steel with stainless steel.
    Its not heat treated but it should wear less than mild steel.

    TP

    pir8darryl-it would be cool!
     
  30. dream it, build it....inspiring.

    Keep cranking dude, kicking ass (although not a fan of that green paint...do you guys have 'hammer-metal' paint over there?:rolleyes::D)

    Cheers,

    Drewfus:)
     

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