Hi guys i was doing some panel spray outs for a buddies interior and i am not sure what went wrong. I am using PPG Dcc9300 single stage urethane, DX870 reducer and for the first time i am trying DXF11 Supercharger Activator. I mixed the ratios perfect in a mixing cup and i even used my sbs scale i mixed 2:1:2 2 parts paint 1 part reducer and 2 parts hardener. i sprayed it out and it looked like glass, i mean no orange peel whatsoever and maybe a few dust nibs but its going to color sanded so those vanish.. I sprayed 2 wet coats, let it flash for 7 min then one more wet coat. the primer i used was PPG red oxide urethane based i believe. it cured for 4 days prior to paint. after i had it sitting in my garage to air dry about 1 hour the gloss black looked flawless then all tiny bubbles seemed to come to the surface. I think this is called solvent pop? i attached some photos for you guys to see. I need advice as to what went wrong or if this supercharger activator caused this or i need more reducer. it was warm today but the humidity wasn't bad and i didn't not go any work in the sun, i sprayed in the shade with my garage open. the panel isn't dry enough yet to color sand , surprised as i hear the supercharger hardener kicks pretty quick. but tomorrow if it is i will try to 1200 to see if i can salvage my work today or not/
3 wet coats in 10 minutes or less would pretty much guarantee you to get solvent pop. Gotta have more time for the solvents to evaporate else they'd be trapped under the skin that forms on the topmost coat.
Thanks for the reply how long do you thnk i sould have wait between coats? I never hadthis issue before using the ppg dcx61 activator and the guy at the supply store said i need to work quick using the Supercharger and you can see the result. I hope i can salvage this panel by color sanding .
Ya didn't let it flash long enough between coats...how bad are they? You can always mix up Some paint and Gardner and " fill" the solvent pop...sometimes a toothpick works for this...let it set up and color sand and buff it...or let it sit in the sun fir awhile, sand it down and paint it again. Ok......skip this reply.....opened the pics....ya need to sand that down and re do it....get a P sheet from the ppg website or your jobber
Yeah. gonna have to sand that off and do it over. Don't think that will sand out without being pitted.
The mixing ratio for dcc 9300 is 4 to 1 .That's 4 parts paint to 1 part hardener plus your reducer.You have way to much activator in the mix.I use dcc single stage quite a bit.Also your solvent pops are moreso because you didn't give it enough flash time
This is the ratio chart i found on ppg site, yes usualy mix is 4:1:1 but it seems to change when using the DFX11 activator. Been reading up on solvent pop and it seems hot climate is notorious for causing this even some pros have issues. I now regret buying this fast activator i should have stuck with what i used in the past. The normal activators were out of stock in quart sizes.
does the compressor have a water separator? your mix ratio is correct. i suspect not enough time between coats. http://www.tcpglobal.com/docs/P-168.pdf
NO sooner than 10 to 15 between coats and take that supercharger and shove it up who evers butt that told you that you should use this time of year. It is an accelerator for colder temps . its 87 here in Wisconsin . I don't think it is much cooler in nyc. You traped all the solvents because the accelerator sealed off the top layer before the solvents could evaporate! I go at least 15 to 20 minutes flash time between each coat base and clear! I also use the slowest activator [hardner] that I can depending on temp. It allows for better solvent release and the longer the coat is "open" the better the flow out and the smoother the finish. And as far as this panel you have if it is just a test panel chuck it . Even if you sand it smooth . Additional coat may reactivate solvents that may still be traped. If it is apart you need , sand it down with 320 to open the surface and throw it outside in the sun for 2 or 3 days to bake. then re sand with 600 and refinish. Qh yeah and cross your fingers Larry
Yes i drained compressor and i have two water traps d i use the orange filter ones at my gun inlet with regulator. Yeah im thinking flash time screwed me up especially being 85 degrees out today. I dont have much experience spraying in summer months and no idea when the temps will drop for me to redo this project. Can someone suggest a. Diff activator i should use in these warm temps?
Old rule of thumb is to use the slowest reducer that you can get away with. Much better flow and finish. Be very careful on upright panels as it may run.
The chart calls for DT reducer in all 5 mix ratios. Choose a hardener that will allow a pot life based on temperature and size of the job not if it's in stock or not.
You can mix the 9300 in 2:1:1 or 4:1:1 depending on the hardener you use. You have the ratio correct for the DFX7 but that may be where the problem is. DFX7 is a very fast hardener and will sometimes skin over depending on temperature. What the other fold haven't mentions is that airflow also has a lot do do with it. If you are not working in a booth with good airflow the solvent may not completely evaporate before it starts to kick off and you end up with what you have. If you are spraying without a booth I would use DU5, instead. The DFX7 was really made for doing small panels in a downdraft booth.
, reading that dx61 is best for dcc then others say du5. According to ppg site du5 is a air dry hardener for clear coats? Does it matter ad will du5 work for me? I will be always air drying. Why are some of these products categorized as activator and some as hardener? This stuff is expensive so i would like pick up the best all around hardener.
Equal parts paint and activator? That seems like a lot to me, although that's what they're calling for.
Is anybody reading the attached chart in post #8? There is no 4-1-1 or 2-1-1 ratio. The details matter....a lot. Some paint companies call it hardener and some call it activator. They both do the same thing.
Stick with the 61 hardener and use the 885 reducer in this weather.You can mix a little 870 with the 885 to control the flash time.Bad 51 merc is right.The activator you used is more for production in cooler weather.I've been using deltron since the early 80's.and rarely had any problems.
dU5 is hard to ger around here, i can get the DX61 hardener in 8 oz, pint and quarts with prices ranging from $33, $80 and ,$110 So darn expenive to buy materials for diy guys like myself I think il grab the small 61 monday and try shooting again in the evening when it cools down. Il extend my flash times and just give two coats this time around. Much appreciated for everyones advice here because most store reps are clueless and just ring up registers.
That's why it's important to get the right stuff the first time even if it costs more its still cheaper . Find a good jobber and stick with them or find out which counter guy leads.
Picked up the DX61 hardener earlier, i wet sanded the panel but it was too intense with pin holes so i DA it clean and primed it a few times a d it will sit until the heat calms down for me to make a second attempt at shooting this stuff. Il let you guys know how i make out this week.
I always let black basecoats dry extra long before clearing...I had a paint manufacture tell me the black pigments (coal) they use in the manufacturing process contain small amounts of water and need extra tome to dissipate..this in turn prevents dieback plus an added plus preventing solvent pop. I let my bases sit at least 1 hour before clear and never had an issue
UPDATE: I was pretty anxious to redo the panel so i did it last night in the dark go figure with my spot light on the work station. it is nasty hot and humid in NY and lesson learned i don't think il be painting anything else in this weather again, next month should be much better so i told my buddy to wait for the remainder of his project until then. using the PPG DX61 activator made a HUGE difference. Coat 1 went on light, i waited 17 min, then coat 2 was a full cover coat, then i waited 20 min then coat 3 was a another full coat. I let it sit in the garage for 2 hours then brought the piece in my home with the AC on until 9am this morning. It came out pretty darn good. I got lots of fish eyes last night but i wet sanded them all out this morning with 2000 grit. I got very few solvent pop issues which were gone with one pass of 2000 grit. i want to wait a few more days before i polish the panel with the machine. the weather is just brutal to be wrenching in the garage. My air system and filters truly suck and i really am looking into one of those HVLP Turbine systems. so all in all it worked out great and appreciated everyone's input who has more experience than i have with this painting stuff. i actually like learning and will continue to hone my skill to maybe one day spraying an entire car i hope.
Glad you got it to work. Thanks for the update. Some good info in this thread. We all learn from mistakes-sometimes ours, sometimes other's.
How close are your filter and water separator from your compressor! I got 50 feet of 3/4 copper line and made a cross zigzag up and down with drains at the bottoms(4) then the filter and separator. Never got water past the 2nd drain. Can,t get pictures at the moment(covered in plastic for painting) Pete https://www.google.com/search?q=air...oPntml36M:&usg=__Z6s8XJG9807mcgq4vw0PWuPMXEY=
I don't restore/paint many cars but when I do I try to paint late spring late fall.Low humidity 70 degree temps here in nj.This is from my old lacquer days.But if you do it it for a living( I don't) I guess you cant wait!
Looks like fish eye problem, if those were visors it could be ARMORALL TIME and your solvent re activated it and you entrapped it. Might be water in the line also
One thing too that I had an issue with in the past and no one brought up is old clear . I used some clear brand new to do a hood , tried using it three years later had a real similar issue with lil tiny pinholes
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