Yes, I'd say it does match, Michael, although the Oliver picture is a right rear three-quarter view. It's been repainted of course, but the chassis rails look identical, as does the shape of the bodywork below. Wheels, hubcaps and aeroscreen look identical too.
"What does the #22 Ted Horn Miller from the '36 race look like? I'm only taking a wild guess, but could Thorne actually be sitting in the Horn car?" Ted Horn 1936 Indy.
Last night we looked at the track in 1911, tonight let's go backward a year. Enjoy, T-Head National Auto Race Meet, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, May 30, 1910 Viewed from the first turn the camera scans the entire track during the third day of races. Spectators in the stands are on their feet as the speeding cars rush past a flagman in front of the control tower. Crowds in the infield relax around a stream and on the grass near the garages and the Aerodrome. This was the first year when races were held on the new brick surface. Charles F. Bretzman, photographer.
Nice photo, most likely a motorcycle powered homebuilt, there were many of these in the 1920's. We need a term for them, they are not Midget Race cars as we know them. I had a 4 cylinder Henderson motorcycle powered one a few years ago that I could never trace the history on.
Does anyone have any pix of the Miler-Burden V-16 roadster they can share? I only have one side view pix and I'm very curious if anyone has any others they can share? This is a scan from Griffith Borgeson's book 'Miller' and is the only image I have....I'll take any and all you might have-THANKS!!-Mark
Mark, The other (bigger) Miller book (Like the highly-technical terms I'm using?) has a nice drawing of the Miller roadster. Anybody have a scan if it?
Thanks everyone. Sadly I don't have that book; hopefully someone can send along a scan-I'd truly appreciate it. Your replies pique my curiosity...Do NO other photos of this great car exist? I think it went up for sale at Bonhams a few years ago, but I can't find any catalog pictures of it published online either. I would guess that such a landmark Miller would have lots of pix taken of it whenever it appeared in public...Hmmm....
Kurtis, I am very interested in this Schneider and others that followed. Would be happy to see and hear what you have to say on them.-Jim
As to the Mercedes chassis above, did not George Waterman have a 1908 Mercedes. The wires throw me a bit for 1908 but I thought Mercedes ran one in Europe in the teens with wires so maybe not unheard of. Does this look like a 1908 GP model?-Jim
Kind of dangerous for me to step out on these newer racers but sometimes you have to take chances I suppose. I kind of thought that the guy in the #22 in post #2040 was Ted Horn. I tried to see if I could scan some pics but my scanner would not cooperate (ordered another tonight). Took some pics of Ted Horn biography by Russ Catlin (1949 edition) of all people (I like Catlin but not so sure you can take everything he says to the bank). The pics below are captioned and you guys can take them for whatever they are worth-Jim Picture of Ted Horn- I have seen other pics where he looks very different The #22 car from 1936 Indy-the #22 is a bit different font "Ted in his Vanderbilt Cup car at Roosevelt Raceway 1936 Horn in Hartz Special chasing Goldie Gardner. England's entry (no.48) at Roosevelt Raceway October 12, 1936
Jim,my photo is definitely Joel Thorne. I sure would like to see the entry lists for the Roosevelt raceway VC races to figure out that part of it. IS it possible my photo is from the 1937 VC?
Joel finished 6th in car #22. 1937, but it says he was in an Alfa??? http://www.champcarstats.com/races/193702.htm
Buildy, I believe you. I looked in some of my books and could see (plus I believe the post 2047 seems to confirm that it is Thorne)) but at first it looked like he had a mustache and reminded me of Horn.-Jim
True,Jim most photos show Joel or Joe as he was called,without that mustache. It does seem to be Roosevelt Raceway Grandstand is the same. Looks like he is on the horse track in the photo,I think. He DNQ at Indy in 37 in car #22. Chassis not identified on the champcarstats for Thorne at Indy.
Found this neat article on the Alfa,but nothing on Thorne. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...e&start=36&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&ndsp=18&tbs=isch:1
Well,I think I have it now. Beverly Rae Kimes did a thorough biography on Joel Thorne in Automobile Quarterly Vol 31 #3. I have that issue and read that in 1937 before the Vanderbilt,there was a group of American drivers and cars that practiced and tried to figure out a way to get the cars competitive with the European cars that would be coming to compete. The photo must be from that session weeks before the race. Joel did end up racing in one of the Alfa cars in the race.
Hey guys, I finally got to meet Art Pillsbury Route 66 Classic Auto Club Speedway Historic Champ/indycar Association-VARA March 5,6,7
Kurtis I aint but here's a Th Schneider history on a site dedicated to extinct mostly French and european cars which unfortunately seems to lack an index. Theopole was the Schneider of Rochet-Schneider.
I already posted these pics of Horn's 1936 Vanderbilt ride in later years, since I didn't have one of it when it was new. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough. That is correct, but it's not the car Ted drove at Rossevelt. It was the 1932 Miller-Hartz 'Mk II', a front-drive machine and as such not really suitable for road racing. His team boss, Harry Hartz, had a new car built for him that year, a single seater as you can see in above photos.
Richard, would it be possible for you to scan that picture for me? There were two very similar cars in the Thorne stable that year, and I would like to make sure which one was which, if possible. You still have my email?
Thanks, Jim, these pictures confirm that Horn drove the Hartz single seater at Roosevelt! Brilliant pics, I'd never seen them before. Yes, a Tipo B Alfa, also known as a P3. It was the 1935 Pirrung/Offenhauser, another front-drive and as such unsuitable for road racing. Very different Alfa, this. Thorne's was much older. Possible, yes. But also possible that it's a pic from before the 1936 race. Both events were preceded by many days of practice sessions, and qualifying commenced a week before the actual race date. The car in the picture is obviously not yet painted in race day trim, and may have carried the number from a previous event.
Thanks for that! Though the photograph is not very clear, but it finally confirms for me that #29 was still one of the 1919 cars at this event. That has been bugging me for quite a while!
Although this is certainly common knowledge here, finally, I was able to better pinpoint the "when" of the AAA Contest Board rule change regarding the registration of racing cars and the beginning of the use of the Contest Board dash plaques and the mandated use of the word "special" as well as the naming of the cars: June 1915, there being an article in the 23 June 1915 issue of The Horseless Age finally helping me narrow it down somewhat. The rule was introduced in mid-season and made effective as soon as possible to implement. I had narrowed this down to perhaps the 1915 season, but not sure since it was not in one edition of the Contest Rules from early in the season.
The Jalopy Journal
