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57 inline 6 235..Popping,Sputtering

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sloppymotor, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. DD COOPMAN
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    DD COOPMAN Member

    Please resist spending $200 on something just 'cause it's pretty and clean on outside. I know you're frustrated. There has to be a better way...patience! DD
  2. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    I cant rebuild this carb myself..and I think its even the wrong carb to begin with.. it has a weird second vacuum line on the driver side..and I cant find a pic of anywhere of this motor .. with this carb..
  3. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    After looking closer at the base..It seems the carb is a Rochester..But the Base has a vacuum live on it of its own..maybe this is an issue..carb sitting on a mix matched base...P.s. this isn't the wiper vac. line..and if it is.. then I know it doesn't go to this motor..cause the wiper vac. goes to the manifold...Thoughts..??

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  4. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Also..Isn't the "Butterfly / Choke" inside the carb supposed to move and adjust with the throttle... ??
  5. rfraze
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    rfraze Member

    No.
    Hey Sloppy, The choke is contolled by a cable, which driver controls to restrict air flow while engine warms. Cold engine/no choke=popping and farting. Butterfly refers to the throttle plate on throttle shaft which opens/closes with gas pedal. They operate independently for the most part.
  6. 52HardTop
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    52HardTop Member

    Hey Sloppy, take that air cleaner off and send us some pics of the carb again. Make them a little bigger. I still say, you may have had a simple problem originally that has become larger with all the adjusting you've been doing. These darn inlines are not rocket engines. They're pretty simple to get and keep running good with a little experience and not a lot of work. I'd love to see your choke and if it's operating. Just so you know, I've been where you are right now. Man, if I can get mine to go, so can you.
  7. OldBuzzard
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    OldBuzzard Member

    Maybe against my better judgement, I will add a couple of observations & maybe clear away some of the fog..

    #1--After reading thru this thread a couple of times it does not seem it has been determined whether or not you have solid or hydraulic lifters.

    They are solid.. Because I have a manual Trans..??? Yes..???

    NO!! Just because you have a std in that car does not mean they are solid. Most information I can find indicates hydraulic in '57.

    http://www.theclassicchevrolet.com/1957_chevrolet_engines.htm 1957 CHEVROLET ENGINES Base Six Cylinder (Manual Transmission):

    Overhead valve Cast Iron block 235.5 cubic inch displacement Bore & Stroke: 3-9/16 x 3-15/16 Compression ratio: 8.0:1 Rochester one-barrel carburetor Brake Horsepower: 140 @ 4200 RPM Four main bearings Hydraulic lifters

    If you insist on adjusting the hydraulic lifters as solids, major things will happen. Not good ones. I think some valves are being held open when they shouldn't be, therefore causing your black plugs & popping. Adjust yours as if they were hydraulic & be safe. Pop a couple of lifters & see if they are scuffed.

    #2--It would appear that there is a problem with timing somewhere along the line that is more than external. If you get an actual TDC (on the proper rotation of the crank) on #1 and there is no mark in the window, there is a problem. The marks on the cam & crank gears were not aligned properly on installation. Make sure you have TDC on the proper rotation of the crank. Remember the crank turns TWICE for every turn of the cam.

    The distributor is usually put in there so that the rotor points in the general direction of #1 cyl although it can be set up so that is not the case. The wire from #1 (The post that the rotor is under when TDC is proper) on the cap DOES have to go to #1 cylinder. Pay attention to the direction of rotation of the rotor. Those motors will, to a degree, run with wires crossed a number of ways, and, some of them don't sound bad at low speeds.

    If somebody else hasn't said this by the time I get it typed and you want some elaboration, let me know, PM.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  8. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    I may have had an accidental break through... went to get new plugs and points and condencer.. when I look at the points they are different than mine.. so I have him look up the points for a 51.. and its the same as my current one.. Then I realize..when I bought the 12v conversion kit.for my 51 car..not taking into consideration the motor and dist. are a 57....I may have ordered the points and con. for a 51 as well... here is a pic...the pic of the Dizz..is with the current points..and condencer.. Also when I got the cap and wires in the mail..the first time it was wrong..to short..so I sent it back..and they sent the correct one..Im pretty sure I kept the org. point s they sent though...

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  9. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    My TDC lines up with the vales open, the mark on the flywheel, and pointing at the number one plug lug.. "Perfectly"...
  10. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Also should I use a larger gage wire coming from the - on the coil to the dizz.. More Current..??
  11. OldBuzzard
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    OldBuzzard Member

    You want the rotor under the cap post for the number 1 cylinder with the valves for #1 cylinder having just closed. The #1 valves have to be closed when it fires. Look at # 4 or 6 I'm getting my motors mixed up, valves, are they closed at this point, as you described above??
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  12. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Closed..means..they are ..UP..right..not compressed by the rocker arm..if this is right then..yes..
  13. OldBuzzard
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    OldBuzzard Member

    Yes, closed means up, the valve closes as the rocker lifts off it. You want both #1 valves up, closed, when you see the timing mark in the window. As the mark is coming into view the 2nd valve will be closing. The valves on the other cyl with the closed valves will be opening.

    Turn the crank one more turn so that the mark comes up again. It should close both #1 valves. Check to see that the piston is at the top of the cylinder.
  14. firengine103
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    firengine103 Member

    You do have a way of keeping the choke open, right, I'd hate to think the choke has been getting sucked closed all this time.
  15. 37 caddy
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    37 caddy Member

    If the choke plate cant open,it is supposed to open as the motor warms up,and if it isnt that will give you all the symptoms you have and will foul the plugs.Make sure the choke can move freely on its own or try and tie it open and see what that does for it,try running it without the aircleaner so you can see if it is moving or staying shut.I bet this is a big part of your problem. Harvey
  16. firengine103
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    firengine103 Member

    This from you is why I'm asking about the choke. Use wire or zip tie to secure it in the wide open position. major cause of flooding.
  17. rfraze
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    rfraze Member

    If it's a 12 volt system, 16 gauge wire should be fine. If 14 makes you feel better, kool. Remember this is a ground, so use black or brown wire, if possible. When the points close, they connect the dizzy (which is grounded to the block) to the negative side of the coil, grounding the coil til the points open. A 6 volt system will require one size larger wire.
  18. alfredfromchicago
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    alfredfromchicago Member

    Ummmm, Yeah. Is the choke even hooked up to anything? a manual cable, a heat riser tube from the manifold? If your problems are because the choke is closed... well....

    um,,, You know you don't need that air cleaner on there, right? Also, those small air cleaners clog up pretty quick. Is it clean? Can you see light through it?

    Back to the basics....
  19. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    10-4..I did that on My 54 Buick..
  20. alfredfromchicago
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    alfredfromchicago Member

    As far as carb rebuilding goes, you probley can't find an easier carb to rebuild than this one. If not you, you should be able to find someone who could do it. Concerning the carb, it looks like the right one. it would fit alot better than trying to put that old 1950 chevy carb on the 57 motor. dont worry about the extra vacumme port. Just plug it. It might have been for a special gauge or a truck application or something. It would help if you provided some better close up pictures though.

    As far as your points go, those look like the same set of points. Same application, just a different manufacturer. If you were getting spark before, thats all that you needed. the points were doing their job.
  21. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    OK..Update.. Changed Plugs,Points,Condencer, ..Fired up strong..let it run for 10-15 min..( Poof Black Smoke shot out tail pipe for 5 seconds ) then Stopped..... I took it out..hoping I would make it back... Ran Like a Raped Ape... I bogged it down ..reved it up..hauled ass..climbed steep hills in low.. putting a huge load on it.. Just Daring it to Make a POP..or SpuTTer... NoThiNG... Soooo Smooth... BUT... at idle its still has an ever so slight...Miss or choppy idle... Very slight.. Also Maybe I'm not Familiar with what a 57 inline 6..Sounds like .. Kinda sounds like a Tractor.. I know this Carb still needs Help..But last night it was blowing Fuel everywhere,leaking,popping and backfiring...Now.. Gaskets are Dry..I have the Screw about 1/3 the way out..and the idle srew set to a low..sweet Idle... Now I SAID BEFORE ALL THIS ..iT ran OK... But wasn't right..Popping..stalling out a little..I knew I needed to get the valves In check.. NOW...Smooooth as silk... I also checked the Spark on all the wires at the Dizz Cap and plugs..Bright Blue, Very strong ..I can hear it snapping ..Like lightning... Thanks to the H.A.M.B Crew...

    Attached Files:

  22. rfraze
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    rfraze Member

    Sloppy, Choke open? Have you gotten it to run well enough to do final valve adjustment, time with a light, and adjust the carb mixture? Have you determined if you have solid or hydraulic lifters yet? There have been several posts on that subject. Do you need any more input on how to figure this out?
  23. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Actually Yes.. Timing is next.?? the choke doesn't move..Its open..and Stays that way.. But final tune on the Carb will have to wait..Till I get this think rebuilt.. I know this Base is wrong..as I said..I think the Last guy threw a Carb together... Also the Braket at the base of the Dizz Looks pretty Crusty..I hope I can Get it loose.. To Dial in the timing.. I don't have a Timing light ..Gonna pick one up.. Carb to the point that its acting normal..no fuel smell coming from My pipe either Now...that's HUGE...Right..???...Havent Figured out if they are solid or hydro yet.. They are so quiet and smooth..seems a shame to mess them all up again... LOL..
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  24. rfraze
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    rfraze Member

    Good job!! Sloppy and the HAMBsters.
  25. NEWFISHER
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    NEWFISHER Member

    Update: changed plugs points condeser.......and its now better? I gambled on the condenser pages ago, do you think OG one in the dizzy was truely the culprit? If so, this is why it is important to keep a points condenser set in the glove.
  26. firengine103
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    firengine103 Member

    Well, that's happy news! A lot of 235's idling will have a slight miss every now and then, just because they want to. No big deal. About the carb, keep working with everything you have now until you have eliminated everything else and there's nothing left to guess but the carb.
  27. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    I did change the points and cond. yesterday. the extra set I got with my 1951 12v coversion kit...and it didn't help..then I went to the Parts store pulled the parts up..and compared the years.. 1951 6 volt points..small frail plastic...A 1957 12v points..are a big fat monster..made of all metal... and the condenser is bigger too...spark before was slight and no pop..Now the spark is loud..and bright blue..
  28. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Thanks Fire.. for all the help.. I'll be back soon.. I've Never used a timing light..:eek:
  29. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Thanks Fisher for the Help...
  30. sloppymotor
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    sloppymotor Member

    Thanks Fraze...

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