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'51 Chrysler Windsor 6 Flathead.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dannykuh, Sep 24, 2012.

  1. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Hello,

    It has been a while but im back again. :D
    After i sold my '55 Jobrated i bought a '66 SKylark.
    But sold that one to. Now it's time for something different.
    I bought myself a 1951 Chrysler Windsor with a six flathead.
    I don't have any specs of this car and is there a website where i can get
    some information about the engine and some info about the electrical.

    Any info would be great.

    Greetz Danny
  2. James Curl
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    James Curl
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Try P15/D24.com They deal with all Chrysler flat head engines, someone on the forum has access to all of the engine numbers. The engine number is located on a pad at the front of the engine just above the generator and will start with a C for Chrysler, D for Dodge S for Desoto, P for Plymouth or I for industrial. The letter will be followed by a number like 15 for a 46 through 48 Plymouth then a stamped number which is the build sequence number.
  3. duke7427
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    duke7427 Member

  4. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    thanks guys...

    Will have a look there.
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  5. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Maybe somebody does have a few quick answers?!?
    What kind of fluids do i use. Oil, atf, brake clutch?
    It's a semi automatic don't have to use atf i think, do i?

    Danny
  6. DanBabb
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    DanBabb Member

    Semi auto might be a fluid drive. Try a search online using that term.

    I think my 52 Dodge truck flat6 called for 30 weight oil.
  7. ClayMart
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    ClayMart Member
    1. photographers corner!!!!!

  8. 50ChevyFrank
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    Illinois, again

    50ChevyFrank Member

    inliners.org
  9. alicia-dusty
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    alicia-dusty Member

    roberts motor parts.com can help too
  10. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    Oil - any good brand of motor oil. 10W30 is fine. Or 15W40. No need for special oil.

    ATF - the Fluid Drive unit and transmission have separate oil supply. Fluid Drive is supposed to use Chrysler Fluid Drive fluid which is no longer available. SAE 10W motor oil was recommended by Chrysler for both Fluid Drive and transmission.

    Many owners today use tractor fluid, TDH type, ISO22 or ISO32 grade. TDH stands for Transmission, Differential and Hydraulic fluid.

    Brake - ordinary brake fluid DOT3 is fine. Some have changed to silicone fluid after rebuilding the brakes and starting with a clean system. It is not good practice to mix the fluids but if you are starting from scratch the silicone fluid is better.

    In those days the brake systems were not sealed. Therefore it is recommended to change the fluid every 2 years to remove moisture contamination.

    Clutch -dry plate clutch with mechanical actuation, no fluid required.

    The 51 Chrysler is one of the best built cars of its time but has a few peculiar features.

    1) 6 volt, positive ground electrical system. Be careful to have the battery right way round.

    2) Wheels held on by bolts with left hand threads on the left side, standard right hand threads on the right side. To loosen the wheel bolts on the left side, one must turn them in the opposite direction.

    3) Fluid Drive and semi automatic transmission. This is a cross between a 4 speed manual trans and an automatic transmission with characteristics of both. It is not difficult to drive once you master the technique which is simple to learn, but not simple to figure out on your own.

    I recommend this web site

    http://forums.aaca.org/f145/

    Do a search for Fluid Drive, there are several long threads from 2008 on the correct care and operation of the Fluid Drive system. There were more recent threads but not as complete.

    ....................Later...........................

    Here is a thorough discussion on operating the Fluid Drive transmission. The car is slightly older than yours but the transmission is identical.

    The only difference might be in the gearshift. The older cars had a gearshift like a manual column shift, your car could have the newer style of automatic gearshift quadrant.

    ........................ Still later.........................................................

    Forgot to post the link to the Fluid Drive thread. Here it is.

    http://forums.aaca.org/f145/1947-chrysler-windsor-highlander-334589.html
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  11. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Thanks again!

    Rusty O'Toole thanks alot.
    Nice...
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  12. plym_46
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    central NY

    plym_46 Member

    Check all the infomation on the Imperial club website. They have a comprehensive repair section featuring the old mechanics training bulletins and pamplets.

    There is a lot of Chrysler into there not just Imperials.

    Your engine is likely a 251 cubic inch with a 25 inch long head. Dodge and plymouth used a 23.5 inch so parts do not interchange. (I believe the 265 was intro'd in 52.

    Your transmission is likely a dual range 2 speed with the technical designation M 6.
    Known by differnet names such a Vacu matic, tip toe in the Desoto and gyromatic in the Dodge.
  13. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Thanlks again for al the reply's, they are al very usefull.
    But i don' t have any doc. or what so ever.
    Are there diagrams somewhere on the web where in can find how to drain and refill
    Fluids from the tranny? Something with pictures maybe, i'm not the reading kind a type.

    Danny
  14. Fortunateson
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    Fortunateson Member

    Don't forget "T" for truck.
  15. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    If you went to the web site (AACA Forums) and looked around you would find many threads on Fluid Drive including pictures of how to check and change oil, the factory owners manual instructions for Fluid Drive, etc.

    The Fluid Drive unit and transmission are checked and filled separately.

    To check Fluid Drive, there is an access plate in the floor. It is located on the transmission tunnel below the instrument panel on the passenger side. Roll back the carpet you will see a removable plate.

    Below the plate is the bellhousing with a round tin cap. Pry out the cap.

    You will see the Fluid Drive unit inside. It looks like a torque converter.

    "Bump" the starter until the plug comes into view. Unscrew the plug. Stuff a rag around the hole first, you do not want to drop the plug into the bellhousing.

    Using a funnel pour oil slowly into the hole. When it runs over, stop and put the plug back. Put everything back the way it was.

    According to Chrysler the Fluid Drive fluid never needs to be changed. The plug is located so the correct air space is maintained. The level is not critical, the Fluid Drive will still work if half empty.

    Transmission. There are 2 pipe plugs on the trans. One on the bottom for draining the oil, one about half way up the right side for filling. The oil is supposed to be changed every 10000 miles. Fill until the oil drips out the filler hole. To check the level, remove the plug and stick your finger in. If you can touch the oil it is fine.

    There is an access plate on the right side of the driveshaft tunnel above the transmission for servicing. Or you can do it from under the car.
  16. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Thanks again Rusty O'Toole, this i can understand.
    Even without pictures.

    Danny
  17. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Now somethong completly different. Since i dom't have a shopmanual. (Yet)
    Here's another question.... electrical this time.
    Can i get a diagram of the turn signals somewhere?
    Don't have a clue where to start. I got some loose wires and stuff.
    Is the relay normsle located and mount on the firewall?

    Danny
  18. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    Did the car come with turn signals or was it an aftermarket unit added later? It makes a difference.

    The relay or flasher was a small aluminum cylinder about the size of a 35mm film can. It hangs by its wires under the instrument panel not far from the steering column.
  19. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Hi, think it did. There is a turnsignal switch on the steering column.
    There is a small aluminum cylinder mounted on the firewall.
    I will under the steering column tomorrow.

    Grtz
  20. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    Let me give you the 51 Chrysler wiring diagram. Hope you can blow it up and read it, the original is not very big. It comes from a paperback book called the Canadian Service Data Book, a mechanic's handbook from 1953.

    Attached Files:

  21. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    The flasher could be on the firewall but usually they were under the instrument panel.
  22. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    Here is a better page from the Chrysler Shop Manual. Sorry it is upside down, that is the only way it will fit on my scanner.

    Attached Files:

  23. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member


    Thanks Rusty, Are those shopmanual expensive to buy you think?
  24. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    A shop manual is one of the first things I look for when I start work on an old car. One will save you many times its value in time and wasted parts.

    When your car was new every Chrysler dealer's service department had them. Thousands were published and many survive. You see them on Ebay and at flea markets for $40 to $75. For a book 28cm by 22cm by 4 cm thick with complete instructions on repairing your car.

    There are reproductions that are not as complete, about half as thick, for $20 - $30.

    Another good book is the Motor Repair Manual. They are as big as the factory manual, for about the same price. They cover every make for a period of 14 years but of course, are not as complete for any one make.

    The Canadian Service Data handbook was an annual publication which contained tables of information on all cars for a 7 year period. 21cm by 15cm by 8 to 10mm. They were put out by the same publisher as the Motor Repair Manual. Price new, $1.50 to $2. Now, $5 to $10.

    You could look at Amazon's used book section, or Ebay, or do a web search for 1951 Chrysler manual. These books are not very rare, you should be able to get one without much trouble.
  25. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    Mmmmm, now it's getting a whole different story. I've printed your diagram rusty, took it with me to the car and the disaster struck. All the wires and even the complete bulb sockets in the front are cut away ?????? So my next question, i'm going to make whole new wiring for the signallights and backup light.
    How can i ground my lights the easy way. I mean where can i ground my rear signal lights?
    Or do i need to ground it on the battery? Can i take a thick grounding cabel and lead that to the back of the car? Or is it much more simple?

    Danny
  26. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    The battery should be grounded to the engine, and to the body. Then you ground your lights to the body.

    Sometimes the body ground gets lost. In that case add a wire between the body and the battery. Use any convenient screw or bolt on the radiator support or inner fender.

    Usually the light socket grounds itself to the body. If you use a plastic light you will need to add a ground wire, you can connect it to one of the mounting screws or anywhere it will connect to the body.
  27. plym_46
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    plym_46 Member

    Remember this is a positive earth vehicle if still stock. Battery cables need to be 0 gauge in order for 6V to work correctly.
  28. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    You're losing me Rusty.....
    My Windsors positive cable is mounted to the engine. That't the other way around or not?
    Doesn't that mean that it's also the other way around with the lights?
    :(
  29. Dannykuh
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    Dannykuh Member

    I'm sorry, i don't understand exactly what you mean with 0 gauge?

    Danny
  30. Rusty O'Toole
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    Rusty O'Toole Member

    The positive cable mounted to the engine is correct. You also need a smaller wire to connect the same battery terminal to the body. This is called the body ground.

    If there is no body ground, you need to make one. Simply connect a wire from the body (any convenient bolt or screw will do) to the battery positive terminal.

    Reason, the engine is mounted on rubber. Usually there is a connection between the engine and frame (body) but sometimes as the engine moves around the connection is broken.

    0 gauge means a fat wire. It should be as big as your thumb. Twice as big as the wire on a modern 12 volt car.

    All wires on a 6 volt system must be twice as big as on a 12 volt. Reason, lower voltage = higher amperage to supply the same power.

    It is important to know this because many old 6 volt cars have been repaired with modern wires which are too small. Too small wires means things don't work right especially the starter.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012

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