Attached are 5 bolt (left) and 6 bolt C4 bell housing pics. Anyone out there know if the 5 bolt engines can use the 6 bolt bell housings? Seems as if the only difference I can see is the bolt hole that is arrowed in pic.
NO,different bolt patterns all around!! The 5 bolt bell will fit the 6 bolt transmission though,and the 6 bolt will fit a 5 bolt trans too. ROY.
Some thing to be careful of though, although the bell housings interchange on the C4, when I did the same deal about two decades ago, the input shaft from the earlier trans was a smaller, different size from the later trans input. If you have to change the torque converters to match in this deal you could be in for problems. I ended up having the two input shafts cut, machined and mated to do the deed, but if I'd dug longer I'm sure there would have been a direct replacement of some sort.
Ok, so the 221, 260, and early 289 blocks have a different bell pattern than the later 289,302, 351W? Seems strange, but anything is possible. I will have to check it out with my 6 bolt bell housing.
Yep, the 221 and 260 will only be found as 5-bolt, the 63-64 289 are also 5-bolt. Everything 65-up (except for the handful of 260s sold early in 65) will be 6-bolt. The one-year-only 5-bolt C-4 bells are very hard to find these days. You can swap all internal parts between the 5 and 6 bolt blocks though, so if you're working with a 5-bolt 289, almost any non-roller 289/302 block will work. The only fly in the ointment is the late blocks with the one-piece rear seal don't have the 'oil slinger' flange at the rear main journal, that will need to be machined off the early crank.
Seems strange? Just a "normal" part of the Ford "secret handshake" I keep talking about... Just be thankful your not talking Falcon sixes... Early, mid, late, and even later bolt patterns, and just for more fun some are drilled for two or more!
d2 willys;yes,you have that correct. need louvers;we must have gotten lucky,did not know about input shaft differences.The car I helped do the swap on has been on the road almost three years now. Thanks for the heads up on the shaft! I have also done the bell housing swap for the big bell [164 teeth] to the small bell [157 teeth]. ROY.
Only deal worse than Ford's 'no interchangeability' program with early engine/trans combos is American Motors rear axles and differentials between about 1958 and 1962. If I recall, 1959 alone (speaking just full-sized cars) had eight or nine different axle designs and none were interchangeable. I realize this is almost non-relevant in a hot rod environment, but it does go to showing why GM stuff is so popular with modifiers and swappers.
Yeah, not to mention separator plates, flex plates, starter motors, and water pumps! AND Ford's propensity to change things mid-year!
Ah, it's not that bad..... You can't just grab parts off the shelf willy-nilly, but there are 'dividing lines' you need to pay attention to. I've never had to shim a Ford starter.....
Ford also had 1-year-only parts well into the '70s. I had a '72 Torino stock car, the rear axle shafts were a bitch to find. I played for a long time with Ford FE motors and was impressed at how well the parts went back and forth in those. The rest of the car was another story. Chevys were a breeze in comparison. Bob
On one level I have to agree, there is a sort of common sense kinda interchange through the model lines that I have become pretty comfortable with over the years. But then thye would do things like 28oz balance and 50oz balance just for the heck of it, and, well, screw that!
I've found that Ford parts will interchange pretty well, but you do have to pay attention. Yeah, some changes are inexplicable (the 5 vs 6 bolt bells are one), but generally there's more interchange than you think. I've found that swapping a part many times requires a few other bits ('ok, I want to use this, but I need this other part to make it work') or maybe a slight mod, but it still works. Or a part that at first glance looks different, but really isn't; a case in point is Y-block, FE, and Windsor fuel pumps. Each looks different from the other, but full interchange is there because the mounting flange and the contact point on the arm are all in the same place. Yeah, I was upset with the 50 oz change too.... until I figured out the late balance revs better because of the lighter crank.
So you have to THINK to run Fords,Big Deal!Once you work with them for a while it all works out!!Besides,any ham fisted clown can build a chevy! ROY.
I'm not sure about the MII diffy fitting the Comet (I believe the spring perches are in the same place), but a V8 diffy from a 1964 or earlier Falcon or Comet would. Also note the MII is a four bolt wheel pattern. I assume we are talking about 8" differentials here.
"The so called "64 1/2" Mustangs are Titled as '65s but have the 64 engines." And so began the endless confusion about when the bellhousing change occurred.
No confusion.... the bellhousing change occurred at the same time Ford switched from generators to alternators.
The confusion is that a supposed 1965 car has a five bolt bellhousing block. But the car really should be called a 1964, but for marketing purposes it was called a '64-1/2 or '65. And just for fun, Ford alternators were available optionally in 1964. This is disregarding the earlier Leece-Neville units.
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