I'm getting lazy. I didn't take any pictures this weekend. After deciding that I was going to have to replace my gas tank, I decided that I might as well fix my rusty trunk floor. No need to be welding and grinding around a gas tank at some time in the future. So, I've made two of the necessary 5 panels and it's going well. I'll post some pics later. I bought a tank from rodpartsdealer on ebay and it is really nice for the money.
Ok, I'm back at it after a brief sidetracking and some rest. Fixing the trunk was a bitch, to say the least. The part in front of the rear axle has to be done on your all fours, resting on your elbows and with your head stuck in so close that it's hard to see what you're doing. I'm glad this part is over. This is a testament to why it's easier to do a frame off/rotisserie restoration, IMO. I still have some work to do on the interior floor but at least it is more accessible. I'm punching out my punch list one item at a time. Since winter is here, I've decide to go ahead and just strip the car, paint it and do everything. Once I started working ont he floor pans, it was one of those "I might as well........." moments. Now that I'm at it, I'll do the whole damn car.
I'm on a roll, again. I got the passenger side floor pan and inner rocker repaired this week. It's hard to take pictures of this stuff, but here goes. All panels were hand fabbed and MIG'd in. It's pretty self explanatory. The Driver's side is going to be worse.
Also, when I tried to remove the running boards, the internal nuts were shot. I ended up using a die grinder to grind the heads off all the bolts so that I could get the running boards off. Then, I had to figure out how to repair these unusable nuts. After considerable head scratching, I decided on the following plan. First, I cut several pieces of 1" X 3/16" flat bar about 1 3/4" long. I drilled and tapped a 5/16" NC hole in the center of each piece. Then, I cut a three sided window in the bottom of the rocker panel, folded the flap down and removed the old nut and hold down hardware. Next, I screwed a bolt through the flap into the new "nuts" and tightened them down in place. I then took a 5/16" drill and drilled a hole through the rocker flap and a small way into the flat bar. Two button hole welds secured the flat bar. Lastly, I moved the flap back up into place, welded it up and ground it down. The pictures here are the finished product. I didn't stop to take pictures of the flat bar and the flap but you should be able to figure that out.
Your doing some real nice work here. Your car still had most of the rockers and floors, basically, my 48 had nothing left. I can't figure out if its easier repairing rusted floors or trying to figure out how to attach new floors to a body shell. Keep working at it, I'll keep reading. LOL Mine is pretty much on hold until about March. Gene
My rockers and floors were pretty solid with the exception of some areas where water had sat. If your rockers are rusted out beyond just some spot repair, you will be better off to just form some new ones and put in a new floor, I imagine. I've replaced floors in some cars before but not these, so I'm not sure what's available in the repop market or exactly what you'll encounter. For that type of project, it's important that you weld in a lot of bracing so that stuff doesn't move around. Then, it would probably be easiest to put it on a rotisserie, although I see a lot of people replace them while the body is still on the chassis. There are arguments for doing it either way. You will have a lot cleaner job and easier work if you sandblast it before you start working on it. On that, there is no debate. That is my only regret with this project. I wish I'd just made up my mind to strip it first. All that rust dust gets everywhere when you wire brush or sand it off. Also, every time you bump it or hit it with a hammer, it falls off. It falls in your face if you're working underneath.
Ok, back on the job today...........and I'm off all next week. If all goes well, I'll have it off the chassis in a couple days. Right now, I'm just finishing up some stuff that's just as easy to do while the bodie is on the chassis. Since my last post, I've removed the doors, glass, trunk lid and various other stuff. I'm going frame off at this point. It's just not reasonable to do all the work I've done and not fix it all. IMO, you just can't de-rust it, paint it and undercoat it worth spit without taking it off the frame. So, a trip to the media blaster will be in order when the weather allows. Boy, what a turn from "I'm just gonna get it running and drive it" to frame off build. That's the story of my life. I never know when to quit. Oh well, it will be nice WHEN I finish it. Whenever that is. Today, I finished up the driver's side floor. Here are some pics. I still have a couple places in the floor to do but it will be easier with the body off the chassis. The pics aren't great. The work looks better than the pics but I don't know how to shoot them any better.
Thought maybe I'd give you a few pictures of what my car looked like when I started. I do rust repair to car body, frame, and suspension mounting points for a living. I bought this car specifically to put on the Dakota frame with the intention of building a street version of a dirt track race car. I bought the body (whole car with a rotted frame and froze up suspension) for $200. It will get a full roll cage because it will fit into my plan, and because I'm a little concerned about the body structure. By adding a cage, I can tie the body to the cage. It won't ever be pretty, but it will be safe and my wife and I will enjoy riding around in it. Don't be too concerned, I've done this before, the 1st one we drove it for 7 years and put over 70,000 miles before I sold it to the next guy. This one is in slightly better then that one was in before I started. Hopefully I can give you inspertation for your car. Now, those "before" pictures. Gene
And a few during pictures. This is the body with the Dakota floor pan attached to the body and bolted to the frame. I used the Dakota's cab floor and the firewall and they are moved back on the frame about 7". The cab floor ends at the rear edge of the door posts. The main hoop for the roll bar sits on top of the rear cab body mounts. The frame was shortened 8" just in front of the fuel tank. The truck was a standard cab, 8' box truck. The truck's box floor was also in great condition. The box floor was cut in 1/2 front to rear (wouldn't fit under the body shell without being cut.) The front of the box floor was shortened. The front edge of the box floor is attached to the truck cab floor with a step up of about 5". The box floor is bolted to the frame at the original two box center bolt mounting points. There is a fabricated rear box and body mount that I don't have pictures of. Since I quit taking pictured and before the weather turned to crap, I did get both rockers built, but right now the whole works is under about 18" of snow. Gene
I know this will involve a lot more work, but I'm sure you'll be happy in the long run. There would be nothing worse than having to repair things when the car is finished, only because you took a short cut. I like the way you tackle this project Rock! Looking great.
Gene, that's certainly an amitious project but it looks like you are right on track! Glad it's you and not me. I think I'd be over my head on that one. Thanks Eric! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Any time you want to. Just let me know when you want to come over. Saturdays and Sundays are best. PM me.
Rockable, you're lucky looks like your rockers are in pretty nice shape. The ones on my 40 are bad but nowhere near as bad as Gene's. This is one area that I'm really concerned about getting right. I know Plymouth Doctor has them but the price is a little extreme for my budget. I seen Streetrodder used 1"x2" thin wall tubing to fab rockers for there hemi gasser they are building. Gene, curious as to what you used to fix your rockers? Thanks, later shawn
Yeah, my car, overall, for a 70 year old car is in good shape. The biggest problem was where water sat inside of it after the seals got bad. I was able to repair my rockers with no problem. A couple areas needed patching but the majority is solid.
The biggest problem with the rockers on these cars is the fact that the rockers have compound curves going in all directions. You really don't notice the front to rear curve until you set a piece of something straight in place. Tubing works if you can give it a bit of a bend, front to rear, but if you require an original appearance, you will probably end up spending the big bucks for the repops, if even they are curved. I've not seen them in person, so I have no idea how correct they are. If you look down at the top of the rocker, at the front edge of the door frame, the rocker is closer to the car's centerline then the rear edge of the door frame rocker is and at about the center of the door, the rocker bows outward about an inch more. Then there is a step down and back out of about a 1/2" from the front door post to the rear door post where the bottom edge of the door would fit. After the step, the entire rocker curves down about 2" and then back to the inner rocker. The "bow" with the "step" between the door posts is the problem area. Most replaced rockers I've seen are straight between the door posts and leave a gap at the bottom of the doors, and they are cut narrow and eliminate the "step" and the door bottom sits outside the rocker. On my car, the original apperance is of little concern to me. My 48 had the kick out on the bottom of the body which was cut off my car on one side at some time during its history and the remaining side was swiss cheese. I ended up cutting off the remaining side and eliminated the kick out on both sides of the car. When I'm done, the lower body will look like the 30s bodies, with the rockers rolling down under the car. My rockers are fabed from 3 pieces of sheet steel. The inner rocker is a piece of 18G attached to the floor pans and bent 90 degrees to straight down. The outer rocker is formed from 2 pieces, one 18G and one 20G. The top piece is the 18 and starts with a 3/4" lip that has holes punched that will be plug welded to the inner rocker about 2" below the floor pan flange on the vertical surface. After the lip, there is a 90* bend outward for about 2 1/2" where it makes an approximate 90* bend for 1/2" then another approximate 90* bend and a short lip. The double 90* bends form roughly a 1/2 of a box shape. This box like area is where the bottom edge of the door fits. On my car, the door bottom and the rocker are straight instead of having the center bow outward about an inch like the original would have done (sure wish I had pictures of this, right now, the car is under 18" of snow). Keep in mind the bottom 6" of both doors have had the kick out cut off as well, so the door bottoms will be fabricated as well. The bottom of my outer rockers is made from 20G sheet and is rolled (18G sheet steel is a bear to hand roll that's why I used 20G) into a 3" 90* bend with a hole punched flange bent on the bottom. The two rocker pieces are welded together on the inside and painted and will be seam sealed on the outside. The finished outer rockers are plug welded (plug welds are about 1 1/4" apart the full length at both the top and the bottom) to the painted inner rocker (makes the entire inside of the rocker being painted). Then the edges are closed up and it will be lightly puttied. Had I eliminated the "step" for the door, I could have just laid out the "bow" in the rocker top piece and formed a flange then weld the bottom of the rocker to the flange to give myself the curved original look, but then i would have had to reproduce the curve in the door and the inner rocker. I think this picture gives you an idea of what the finished lower 6" of my car will look like, you can still see the kick out I eliminated in the front fender, and a picture of what it was originally. Gene
Basically your repairing the doors to look like the early 40's look that had running boards. One of my concerns is making sure my doors will seal correctly. I might be able to repair what is there just not sure if it is worth the trouble or just make new. I'll have to study it a little more. Thanks for your description. later shawn
Ok. Yesterday, I modified the bulkhead that separates the trunk from the passenger compartment. Originally, there was a spare tire well on the interior side of the passenger compartment. It was covered by a curtain of upholstery material. (I didn't take "before" pictures. Sorry.) I want my spare to be in the trunk, so I rebuilt the mounts for the bulkhead using 1" sq. tubing and 1/2" sq. tubing. I will mount the original spare carrier on the 1/2" tubing on the driver's side, as I plan on putting the batter on the passenger side near the bulkhead. Tomorrow, I get my '64 Catalina out of the shop so that I will have enough room to work on the body on the rotisserie/dolly and store the chassis inside. I will be planning a trip to the media blaster's soon.
Just a question Rock, you talk about a spare tire inside the passenger compartment. Was it located directly behind the drivers seat? I seem to have space there for one.... Thanks, Eric.
No, Eric. It was behind the passenger's seat, right hand side in the U.S. The bulkhead was covered with 1/2" plywood in two pieces. There was a central divide that was a formed sheet metal piece about 6" deep. The plywood on the driver's side was about 6" further forward than the plywood on the passenger side and the spare mounted inside the cockpit on the passenger side. Does that make sense?
plmczy i have the ply doc rockers, they are curved as described. i can try and take some pics if interested, i have not yet gotten them installed on my 40. everything at floor height was rusted out so i'm replacing it all and am still working on getting the 1/4 panel and cowl set. from what i can tell from an initial fit check the rockers are close, but not 100%. they seem to be a bit short either in length, or in meeting the height of the floor but i can't really say for sure as my vehicle has little there to use as a stock reference. also the door gap appears consistent but i don't know what the amount of gap should be to know if it will seal as stock. eric, my 40 has the spare behind the driver.
Here's a pic of mine taken through the passenger door. Behind the drivers seat it is recessed about 6-7 inches. Does anyone know if this was the position for a spare tire or maybe a small briefcase. (it is a business man's coupe after all)
The 39 Plymouth business coupe I had located the spare tire on the driver side as well, but this car was so jacked up, there was no way of knowing for sure. I still have the bulkhead from the 39 here with some of the plywood still intact, see the picture of it. all thumbs, I'd like to see pictures of the Plymouth Dr's rockers. When we did a 46 several years ago, I don't believe the original rockers were as low as the bottom of the front fenders, and I'm not sure they were as low as the rear quarters either, seems I remember them being about an inch higher at the bottom and the difference was covered by the stainless trim on the bottom of the rockers. I'll have to see if I still have pictures from that 46 here before we repaired the rockers. As far as the doors sealing, they never really sealed well from the factory, that was why the rockers and floors were always rotted out, poor sealing around the windows and door frames, and having nearly flat floors from the frame rails outward to hold the water that got in. Gene
Eric, that exactly ass backwards to the way mine was. Go figure. Perhaps it had something to do with the car being made for Europe? Something like the Driver's side was the safe side to get out on in Great Britain? Hell, I don't know but it's backwards from mine. Rock
here is a pic of the area behind the seat on my 40 also two pics of the rocker, one from the top to show the curvature, another from the side showing the upslope at the cowl/door pillar. finally a pic of my quarter repair to show how the rocker would sit on the bottom flange of the quarter panel setting the rocker height below the door. look for the flange just below the door seam. if you need some more detailed images pm me and i can try to take what you need. I'll post some additional pictures later when i get the cowl set in place so i can illustrate the rocker placement vs. the door, patches, etc. note that the rocker repair section from the ply dr. requires an additional rocker extension if you need to repair from the door back to the wheel well. the pics i have shown would span the length of the door only.
The Jalopy Journal
