Technical 394 Olds starter information.

I decided to do a separate thread outside my regular rpu build thread because I thought there might be some help I could provide to anyone doing what I am doing, and they might learn from some mistakes I have made.

The engine in my rpu is a 1964 Olds 394, and I am using a starter switchover adapter housing to move the starter to the right side for steering box clearance. I bought this adapter probably 20 years ago at Turkey Run because I had the Olds motor already in my shop and knew I would use it someday for something.

When it came time to get a starter to fit the housing, I at first assumed I could use my stock Olds starter, turn it upside down, and it would work. When I did that I found that the solenoid wanted to go about an inch or so into my oil pan. Some people cut a pocket into the pan for clearance, but I didn't want to do that, so I started researching what starter people used "back in the day" for this swap, surely someone had to know. Turns out, no one remembered. Some said early Chevy, some said Cadillac, but I never could find out for sure.

I knew Ross Racing carried a gear reduction starter for this engine that would work, but I will be honest and say I tried to avoid going that route for two reasons: First, I was cheaping out and didn't want to spend $280 for a starter if I could help it, and secondly, I thought a gear reduction starter would look too "new" to fit the look of the car. So I bought a NOS 51 Chevy starter on Ebay because someone said that worked.........it didn't fit any better than my Olds starter. Some people said a 56 Caddy starter would fit, but they were going for about $400 on Ebay.

Oh, to complicate it more, I spoke to Tony at Ross one day ( he was making me a special water pump pulley) and he told me the 166 tooth flexplate I got with my Bendtsens transmission adapter would not work with the switchover adapter I was using because those were designed to fit the early Olds engines with a 176 tooth flexplate, and Olds had gone to the 166 tooth one later on. I had to have Bendtsens make me up a new flexplate with 176 teeth and do some grinding on the inside of my bellhousing to make it clear. But it does fit now.

Finally, I decided to bite the bullet and order the proper starter from Ross and it came in yesterday. It is a very nice piece and doesn't at all look too new to put on this motor. When I went to install it I had some clearance issues so I called Tony and basically I said "Ok, I'm a dumbass, what am I doing wrong ?" He told me (very patiently ) that he has seen some switchover housings with a lip cast into them that needs ground off to let the starter rotate just enough for the bolts to line up. After I removed the housing and laid it on the bench, I could see what he was talking about and 15 minutes with a die grinder let the starter sit where it belongs.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I just want to save someone else some head scratching if they do the same thing. And, thank you Tony for being so patient and helpful, it really helped me a lot. I just wish I hadn't been so cheap in the beginning and ordered the correct starter from day one. Live and learn.

I forgot my camera today, but am going back to the shop when it cools off tonight and will post some pictures.

Don

 

Good info. I almost went that route but decided to move the steering shaft a tad and its all good.

 

If you can avoid moving the starter, like you did, it sure saves some work and parts. My 56 Ford pickup steering box wanted to live right where the starter was, so I had no choice.

Here are some pictures I took tonight, they show how the Ross starter leaves lots of room for things like exhaust. Now I can run the lines to my remote oil filter with room to spare.

Don

 

Golden!!

 

Nice.

 

I am glad this worked for you , alot of times you can clock the position of the nose cone to reposition the solenoid's position usually you can 180 it or turn it in 1/3rd or 1/4 th incriments if this makes any sense to you all I worked next door to a starter shop for about 12 years and have learned alot about starters and alternators some of the tricks he taught me are awsome you can put a hi torque pontiac armeture and coils on alot of things and turn over hi compression engines a whole lot easier then some recommended jap crap they sell today ....just sayin if you are ever in a starter situation I would be more then happy to assist in any way......

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For my 49 olds engine with the starter switch over, I looked for another old GM starter that mounted on the other side.( I think it was an old buick ) I used that nose cone on my starter and WALA it works just fine and still has the old external solenoid arm. Gary

 

Hey Don thanks for posting the info. I too bought a starter crossover years ago just in case I ever needed it figuring they would become extinct. I have a nice 324 Rocket that may find it's way into one of my projects in the future.
It's funny, I don't remember having to do any fancy stuff to use the one I had way back in '68 or so. I had a 371 in a '47 Ford coupe w/a C&O Hydro and I believe we used a '50 starter rewound for 9v for a little extra kick. Being just 18, I had help from Joe Rose at R&W automotive and Nando's auto electric did the starter. I just did what they told me and it worked great. My crossovers were/are from Hildebrant. I'm wondering if it was a 6 cyl starter?
How about some current pictures of your RPU?

 

Thanks guys for adding more info to the thread. There was a tech article on here a while back where a member took an Olds starter and made up a new arm to activate the bendix so it would clear the pan. I thought "Great !" and headed to the shop to try it on mine. But his starter was totally different than the one that came with my 394 because my arm is in a cast in portion of the nose cone and it couldn't be modified.

Here is a picture from the thread where the guy modified his starter solenoid:



But in the end I am so happy I sprung for this one from Ross, it is really a quality piece and the gear reduction aspect should have more torque to spin the motor over better. My Son has one on his 455 Olds and it cranks it very well.

Bob, my rpu is blown apart right now for finishing, but here is where it stands right now.



And this is it when it before I blew it apart for paint and finish work:




Don