"3 on the tree" to "5 on the tree"

Ok - here's a totally stupid FNG question for all the McGiver type of guys out there.

I'm replacing the 3spd in the Pontiac with a 5spd and don't want a floor shifter. What would it take to create a "5 on the tree" shifter mechanism ???

The old Astro vans had a remote linkage setup - could this idea be used on the column ???

Let the lashings begin !!!!!!

 

Early Mercedes (59-60 ?) had a 4speed on the column ..4 forward plus reverse, one might have enough positions to modify..

CC

 

There are no stupid questions.....just stupid people. Sounds chock full of effort to me.

 

there were a few econoline vans in the 60s with 4 on the tree. they were a nightmare.

enjoy the floor shifter.

 

one time on ebay I know I saw a toyata or nissan (or the like) pickup that had a 5 on the tree, im pretty sure it was an 80s model. I believe the pickup itself was in australia.

 

Yes, it is do-able. The 60-70s low cab International medium trucks used a 5 speed column shifter (with a pull switch on the dash for the axle splitter). The linkage was designed to pivot at the hinge point of the cab so there was no bind when the cab was tilted. Obviously(?), you won't need to worry about any of that.

The cable linkage from any manual front driver would be a good place to look for ideas. The trick will be to get the linkage to work on the trans end. If it is a ZF box, you can probably find a shift plate from a european van of some sort. If not you might just have to build it. The linkage sticking up into the tunnel might be a cosmetic issue depending on what the interior is like...

 

It can be done, but why? How many wornout 3 speed pickup linkages have you ever dealt with? Then add more functions? Medium and heavy truck manufacturers quit trying that stuff after the mechanics proved the engineers or that attempt were full of shit---shouldn't ever wear out.
Part of how an manual tranny shift top works has to do with leverage on the long shift stick when you need to overcome the detent springs and lockouts.
Save yourself some time and effort for another place on your project.

 

There was a 61 valiant on ebay with a perkins diesel and a 5 speed on the column

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plym...019QQitemZ290253209780QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

That would be really cool I think, but then again I'm not the one trying to engineer it or fix it. Imagine a shoebox with a period perfect flatty and T5 behind it shift on the column. No one would be the wiser.

 

Thats the main reason I'm thinking about doing it. Trying to keep everything stock (Flat 6 239), but at highway speeds "she's gonna blow !!". If I can "hide" the obvious, its just that much better.
Plan on doing the conversion to the 5 spd this winter, so I got lots of time to "work out the bugs"

Thanks for the comments !!!!

 

Lots of 5 on the tree stuff off shore. I was in China in 2000 for six months and many of the small trucks and vans had them. Start looking in Europe and Asia for some donor parts.

-Bigchief

 

Study this, yours will be similar:

 

Sounds cool! I have a '50 Silverstreak 239 and want to go T5 also. Any info or research you could share? Looks like the biggest hurdle is the adapter. I found one company online with the correct adapter, but $1000 seems quite steep!

 

i've never seen an astrovan with manual tranny.

instead of a t5, if i were to keep the column shift i'd swap to a 3 or 4 speed with overdrive. that way you get overdrive but don't need to mess with the shift linkage.

 

Muttley used to drive one of those International trucks. He found that in the owner's manual. Find reverse.

 

Looks like a housing development!

 

while helping a friend at the local picparts find a remote shifter for his volks formula car we pulled a 5 sp stick control out of a toyota, don,t recall the model but we looked at several different rice buckets an they all were similar, and they were remote 5 sp.cable floorshifters, that mount to the floor, or back of the box.You will need to use the toyota trans or whichever trans you can find with that type of shifter as they are sideshifters and also dont know if you can adapt it but they are remote cable shifts and shift pretty good. also dont know if they will be strong enough but some of them are pretty strong. so Any way just some ideas to pass along.

 

I think it could be done if you had a trans with side shifter forks, like if you went to a Ford toploader 3spd+OD, but you might have to engineer half the parts even then to add another fork. I've never seen a manual trans astrovan either, I almost would like to to see how that deal works with the T5 shifter.

 

It seems like a shame to waste two gears but if it's just overdrive that you're after why not make the 3spd shifter shift your 5spd in 1st, 3rd, & 5th and omit 2nd & 4th. Not optimal but it could work.

 

forgot to mention, The stock Pontiac early col. shifter in the US, has the same type of shifter action as the imports, The col. shift [pontiac,olds,buick] has a selector arm, for moving the main shift arm in and out, selecting one shift rail to the other, inside the box, check yours out, the imports do basically the same.

 

I'd think that this would be the way to go. How much gain for the trouble would you really gain by going the 5 speed route?

 

The Astrovan did indeed come with a 5-spd option, but it is rare. The "remote" linkage is nothing more than an offset shifter box - it could not be readily converted to a column setup.

The reason many folks don't like the 3+1OD is the gear splits. One of the nice things about a true 5-spd w/OD like the T5 is the smaller RPM drop between shifts. With a 3+1, you have a 3-spd with it's large RPM drops and then an OD. While the packaging is often simpler, it is, like most things, a compromise...many folks simply prefer the other end of the compromise - potentially more complex installation for 5-spd advantages.

 

Not sure if it helps but the RH drive Toyota Crown that is used in the domestic market (Japan) all have 4 or 5 speeds on with column shifters.

May or may not be able to use them, but the parts should be VERY cheap!

 

When I was a teenager a couple of centuries ago, a friend sent me to the garage to pick up his car. a Austin Princess. Parked right at a ditch, took me a half houir to figure out how to get it in reverse. LEft hand drive with 5 plus reverse on the column.

Had to pull the shift knob out to get reverse.

Might be a possible source???

 

That's all true but it still seems to me that a 5 speed column shift is an answer looking for the question.

For a cruiser, the larger drops aren't that big of deal. If you are looking for performance IMO you are going the wrong route with the complications of a column shift.

Doing something just to say that you did is all well and fine though.

 

I think in this case, he's going for a look. So it's his compromise to make. In other cases, it might be a space issue. Otherwise, I tend to agree with you - I'd rather have a direct shifter - less slop, less potential for wear, etc.

It's all a compromise...

 

ha! this subject is getting bigger, must be some interest, and it is interesting to see what comes up. Another item to think about in this subject, is what is the goal, I think its basically to end up with a good economical cruising speed, which is what Detroit wrestled with in the past. One of the things they did was use a wide ratio gearbox. They just used a tall gear in the rear, and a extra low gear in first. This gets the barge moving and then you had close ratio,s following, this was used in both 3 and 4 speeds. And in this case on the old Pontiac, his first gear is pretty low so he just needs a taller rear gear.

 

so you have to go through 12th gear to get into fifth? where is the flux compasitor gear?

 

Wow !!!

Thanks guys for all the input on my stupid question / idea. I just wanted to see if this is something someone else has done or thought of doing. Basic desire is to get better rpms for cruising while trying to get things looking as original as possible.

Winters up here can get to be pretty long and boring so doing (or failing at) something like this would keep me occupied and not bothering the better half. Rest assured if not successful by when the snow melts, a floor shifter will be in there quicker than stink.

Thanks again for all the ideas !!!

 

I'm not sure how useful any parts would be, but I had an 87 Fiero with 5spd and in those cars the shifters were remotely mounted and operated cables to the trans. Might be worth looking into how it works for ideas. I will say mine was sloppy as hell though. IIRC, they also used the same shift pattern as a T5, and being GM, I wouldn't be shocked if the transaxle was BorgWarner based like the T5.

Good luck and let us know if you figure something out. I've wondered for some time if it was a doable thing or not.

I'm also loving the 20 speed shift pattern. Someone should make it into a real shift knob. That would certainly get a few laughs.