Projects 1940 American Bantam Woody Convertible Build

New picture posting format is working for me!

 

Peanut, I'm glad they're working. The other photos are from my media album on here, these new ones are just attachments to the post. If I use the attachments, they may also allow the pages to load better. We'll see how it goes. I like the inline photos, but perhaps that's what causing the issues.

AHotRod, That's a very good question. I've been struggling with how to classify this project for a while. I wouldn't call it a restoration because of the extensive nature of the modifications to the car. However, it also isn't going to be a full blown hot rod with a DeSoto Hemi, 4-speed, and olds rear. It could be considered a custom due to the effort to improve upon the looks of the original car.

I would have to say this project is more like taking a fairly stock 26 T body, putting it on a rolling A frame, and installing a B engine while mismatching the parts to build a respectable Ford. Will it be loud or fast? Maybe not, but it's an attempt to build the very best car possible out of a very small parts bin.

Back in 1948, the owner of a Western PA auto parts supplier successfully attempted to build the last entirely new Bantam from the few new parts left after civilian production ended beginning the build off of a display chassis in the administration building. He built a fairly stock roadster by raiding the parts bin. It was an admirable feat and I'm hoping to go quite a bit beyond that. There will be a few surprises along the way, so please keep watching.

 

Well, it took about three months of on again of again work, but the clevis pin is out. It must seem foolish that it would take this long to get the pin or, our that I'd be this excited. However, I can say the hardened steel of this pin has been more of a trial than any other aspect of this project to date. I tried vice grips, I tried heat, I tried drilling and watched this pin laugh as it happily ate up my drill bits. With one bit finally penetrating all the way through the pin, I tried to expand the hole. A few more hours later, I finally tried to heat the lever and used a punch and hammer to try to force it out. When I heard something fall to the ground, I thought I had broken my punch. Thankfully, the pin relented and I can try to mount the new tranny mounts, radius rod mount, and shock mounts. I'm glad to finally be able to keep moving on with the project.

 

The progress has begun again! Over the past few days, I have pulled out all of the 1940 style frame improvement pieces to determine which ones will be making an appearance on my late 1939 style frame. From the previous frame, I pirated 2 transmission support mounts which also work to stiffen the frame forward of the center cross-member, 2 floor support brackets which will prop the floor up just forward of the seat to prevent distortion which plagued the earlier cars, 1 radius rod support bracket with a large model A sized ball (which will be particularly convenient when looking for the correct bushing), and 4 hydraulic shock mounts. Photos will be coming tomorrow as I update the frame into a modern wonder!

 

Remember those parts I had mentioned above? Well, here they are as they were on the frame that came in from Montana. As you can see, they are stoutly riveted onto the frame. Nothing was bolted. Due to my space constraints in the basement, I will be using nuts and bolts. On these parts, I think I should be okay given the number of bolts and the close tolerance between the diameter of the bolt and the holes.

Anyway, as you can see, I thought ahead and took photos of the parts with a tape measure to give me an idea of where I have to place these parts when I would be ready to mount them on my other chassis. These are the only photos I took. It took a lot of reverse engineering to remember where I started the measurement from. Take my advice, take photos of more than just the part next to the appropriate measurement, you'll be very thankful you did. For the floor supports, I really didn't prepare enough for how I would reattach the brackets to the frame I am using for the project.

More to come.

 

Keeping in mind that I do not want to have to rivet anything in the frame, I am facing a dilemma. The frame rails of the Bantam frame are riveted to a cast/forged front member. On the 1940 frames, these rivets that kept the frame together also retained the front shock mounts. I don't want to tempt fate by removing these rivets and replacing them with bolts. So, what would you consider doing to mount the front shock mount?

We have a little time to think about it as my mounts look to have been modified at the factory with a second set of off set holes. I have found that there are a number of differently sized shock arms available, so I will be waiting until my entire chassis is test assembled for completeness including the shocks so I can determine where this mount should most appropriately be attached. All suggestions are welcome as to how to attach the pair of mounts.

 

Chassis work isn't very sexy, but it is necessary. Keep plugging away!

 

Thanks Peanut! It isn't, but I've come to terms with its importance. The body is laying on its side so it takes up as little space as possible while it waits its turn for work. I had hoped to have the frame media blasted and painted at this point. However, I greatly underestimated what needed to be done, how long it would take, and how little time I would have. I'm just glad I'm moving forward.

 

I'd like to start off by saying, don't buy the cheaper Skill drill at Lowes. The chuck does not spin on the center and appears to be somewhat offset. That said, here is a little progress.

The first photo is of the frame, just before getting to work on it. The goal was to install the transmission mounts and the radius rod support bracket. The radius rod support bracket was fairly easy as all it required was some enlarging of the holes to fit the 5/16" bolts I am planning to replace the rivets with.

The tranny mounts required enlarging of all of the holes in the cast piece, enlarging of the existing holes on the frame and drilling of a new hole on the crossmember to support the mount properly.

In the final photo, you can see all three mounts ready to be bolted onto the frame. I still need to decide on the exact hardware I will need for each piece. I'm thinking of ending up with castle nuts and safety wire/cotter pins on some of them. The length of the bolts will still need to be determined.

After staring at this a little more, I am really happy with the ball and socket method of mounting the radius rods rather than the bushed bolt that was originally used. Although in theory I should only need to worry about the radius rods pivoting up and down, I'm sure there are other forces that will be encountered, similar to the ones that made the bolt sheer off from the original mount. As you'll see in future installments, the radius rods each have half of a socket that bolts around this ball. This should accommodate more variations in movement with greater strength than the original set up.

For the first holes I've had to drill in the frame, I couldn't ask for an easier introduction. Next up, rear shock mounts.

 

Onto the rear shock mounts:

As you can see, the rivets were better for the purposes of clearance. I will have to alter the heads of the bolts to get them to fit well so the nut end can be on the bottom of the frame. However, I was very happy with their placement considering the poor measurements I took prior to cutting off the other ones. I've also learned that doing the first side seems to be the hardest. With each of these small chassis mods, the second piece is always done in about 1/3 the time the first piece took, and the end product is usually also a little nicer.

Tomorrows update will be floor supports. Once they are in, the chassis will basically be ready for the first test assembly.

 

Just so you know, I didn't forget about you. The last few weeks have been quite hectic. More progress and photos to be posted soon.

 

Oh goodie.Can't wait.

 

The final holes I am going to be drilling in the frame for now are the ones for the extra floor supports used in the 1940 model year. The floors in Bantams supposedly were notorious for oil caning due to thin metal and a lack of central support. Adding these two supports should help curtail unwanted movement in the floor.

Around the time I was preparing to mount these floor supports, someone shared a photo of the underside of a late 39-early 40 frame, detailing the parking brake assembly. If you look, the factory installed a rubber spacer which I hadn't previously considered. So, to determine the location of these new mounts, I ran a straight edge across the frame to determine how far the parking brake bracket was offset from the frame rails. Once I determined the approximate location lengthwise down the frame where the brackets were positioned, I utilized a straight edge and measured the distance from the it to two points on each bracket.

A little drilling and some enlarging of the holes led to some satisfying results.

There are still two brackets which I need to determine how I will mount to the frame. However, they are responsible for supporting the front hydraulic shock absorbers, which I also don't have at this point. So, I am going to start putting all of my pieces together as a rolling test chassis. Since this car is mostly being rebuilt from parts, I think this will be very helpful in determining what parts are missing and what further alterations must be made.

To come in future posts:
- Front axle fun
- Removing drums from tapered axle shafts
- Making the best from cable operated brakes
- Hardware selection - making the best decisions when there is nothing to go by
- Fitting a mockup engine in the frame

 

As I'm starting, I'm realizing how difficult it will be to avoid temptation to recondition parts along the way. I have to remember that this is just a test fitting of all of my parts to see what my baseline parts collection looks like.

The first step I took was to go through the 1940 style brake cams. If you looks at these cams in comparison to the earlier style, you'll see how much smaller they are. These cams are inserted through thin bushings which felt worn before I disassembled these wheel assemblies. As you can see, extensive wear has eaten away at the shafts. It was suggested to me that this would cause a waste of braking effort as it would alter the axis around which the cam turned and prevent some of the brake action from exerting force on the drum. The best pieces have been installed, but I need to source thin bushing stock for this. McMaster Carr was recommended. When I get to reconditioning the parts, I'll start to peruse their catalog.

The next step was to sort through my brake shoe collection. The 40 cast iron shoes are supposed to have flat interfaces at the lower pin and on the cam. All of my pads seem to have significant wear at the bottom pin. This will need to be addressed to ensure that the floating action of the pads is not lost to worn components.

Fortunately, I was able to locate a club member with good springs and another with a set of new springs he had reproduced. The better the parts, hopefully the better the brakes.

I have new bearings for the front hub, but will be waiting until I am ready to assemble everything before I install them. Greg suggested a way to install modern seals in the front hubs which sounds like a fantastic idea. Once everything is ready, I will definitely go that route. The less lost grease the better!

The wheel studs are pressed through the drum and the hub to keep the two sandwiched together. Since I don't have bearings or seals in place, I figure if I don't install studs, I'll be less likely to try to make it a rolling frame and damage something. Also, I found a local company willing to use a water jet to cut brake reinforcing bands for my brake drums. So, before I assemble the hubs, I want to have the rings installed.

Not a bad day of work! (Both sides are done.)

 

With the front brakes figured out and together, I set my sights on assembling the front end of the Bantam frame. Here are a few photos for your enjoyment.

I first assembled the brakes as you saw above on a loose axle. The thought was that I'd mount it to the frame once the brakes were all squared away. When it comes to the final assembly of the car, I think I may try something different.

On my shelf, I have been harboring an NOS bantam front spring for the past few months. I eagerly cut it open, being careful of the 1946 shipment date when it ended up in Ohio; preemptively destined to help get a car back on the road. Amazingly, it only had to wait nearly 70 years to find its way onto a car. I grabbed a pair of squared U bolts I had for mounting the front spring, and sandwiched the front engine mount between the spring and the frame. The bolts only protrude above the frame a little more than the width of a nut. It looks as though 1940 Bantams most likely used longer bolts. (Something to add to my shopping list).

With the spring hung, I positioned the front axle beneath it to see what I'd need to do to line the spring up with it. I sifted through my parts heap and came out with 4 pieces of shackles. On Bantams, one side is threaded to hold the shackle bolt in place and the other is smooth. Only one of four of my shackles is threaded, and all four are worn from use. Before assembling the car finally, I may try to reproduce these to ensure a tight front end.

The shackle bolts have a very nifty wear pattern on them as you can see. While they look cool, they also don't look safe. I'll be hunting for a new set of bolts in the future. (I think I may have found a source for the squared U-bolts and shackle bolts for when the time comes.)

When lifting the axle into place, I realized that a new spring will not easily accommodate the axle. With so little weight on the frame, I couldn't think of just jacking the axle into place. So, to the google I went! After some searching, I found a person on the ford barn forum seeking to install a new spring on a Model A frame. The method seemingly preferred was to take a stout block of wood and use clamps spanning between it and the top of the spring to gently remove some of the arch from the spring. This method resulted in two bent C-clamps (harbor freight issue) and two broken boards (be careful to choose boards without knots for this purpose), but most importantly an axle attached to the spring. Is it on correctly? Not so much, but when it comes time to assemble the car finally, I have a good idea of how to effect the proper adjustments.

After a decent amount of searching, I finally found a pair of good radius rods. Finding unbent radius rods for these cars is nearly impossible. These will most likely be boxed before final assembly. A little extra strength could be very important, especially with the awful roads around here. After trying and trying, I couldn't get the sockets of the radius rods to mate up with the ball. I finally realized that it is important to leave the spring slightly loose from the frame when aligning the wishbone. Without the extra give, nothing wants to settle into the correct place.

Some more work and I started sorting out the steering components. However, the tie rods are currently giving me a little grief. At that point, I decided I was finished with doing work for the evening. Calling it a night, I realized that my shop was completely cluttered and I couldn't get to the door to get out. There just happened to be an engine and transmission in my way. Doing the only proper thing, I mocked the two up and stuck them onto the frame to see what my frame was starting to look like.

Until I can get the steering pieces apart, I may be stalled on the front end. Not to worry though, there is still plenty of work to be done in the rear. I have to pull the seized drums off of the axles, replace a rotted drum as well as a rotted backing plate. Then I need to figure out the proper brake pieces to make it all work. So, the next update you see will probably involve a long breaker bar, a torch, a 3 jaw drum puller several times my age, and a leaky Spicer axle on its way to rebirth.

Until then!

 

Would you believe a year has already passed on this project? The thread started long before any real work began, but I can say locating the essential pieces from which this car is being hewn is no simple task.

A few nights ago, I finally popped off the second of the rear brake drums. The combination of the tapered axle with ancient grease and rusted drums did not make this a simple task. When I first learned these axles were tapered, I began researching how to get the drums off without too much frustration. Thanks to the HAMB and some very helpful people, I realized that I needed a drum puller. I tried to find one at Autozone, I think they're still laughing. Although hub pullers are plentiful, the pullers with the movable jaws which bolt onto the wheel studs are much harder to find. Ebay never worked out for me, and I really wanted to get an American product. After searching at every car show and flea market, it turned out my Dad had one. He needed one years ago to do the brakes on his Terraplane, but I thought he had only borrowed the puller. As it turned out, he bought one after that, and I had no idea. His puller was missing the T handle, so I bought a breaker bar (always wanted one) and a socket to fit the puller.

A friend suggested reversing the castle nut so I would have a lesser chance of mushrooming the end of the axle. I'm really glad he suggested that otherwise I would be looking for new axles right now. Along the way, I learned it's a good idea to leave the nut on to also ensure that the drum and puller don't go flying when the interference grip between the taper and the hub lets go.

After my first attempt, I was afraid nothing would budge the drum. I was using a pry bar (which I somehow found in the street, pretty handy) to stop the rotation of the axle as I applied force to the puller. I was getting nowhere fast.

On a trip to pick up my new Daily Driver, I was talking with another man in the Bantam club. He suggested that ample heat would not only expand the hub, it would also help melt the ancient grease. When I finally got settled back in I set off to my shop and I set my sights on getting at least one drum off. I piled every piece of scrap wood in my garage onto the other side of the axle. After heating the unit for about 10-15 minutes, I began tightening the puller. Without the luxury of a T handle to beat on with a hammer, I had to try to provide another form of impact. Jumping on the breaker bar with one hand on the garage door did the trick. Almost as loud as a muted gun shot, the hub popped free. The sound was loud enough, I decided to to the other drum during the day.

Starting with the rotted drum, I tried to pull it off of the brake assembly. Unfortunately, the brakes were seized to the inside of the drum. With enough prying, it all came apart. Since the drum and backing plate were already damaged beyond repair, I didn't mind forgoing careful finesse.

The other side was even easier as the drum turned prior to pulling it off the axle. Somehow, when pulling everything apart, the brake cam lever became jammed in its bushing which led to some more joy when replacing it with the smaller cam.

A few bolts and rust kept everything else together. I replaced the brakes with the components I will be using and evaluated all of the rear end parts to see what I'll end up needing. Finally, I got the rear back together loosely so I can mount it into the frame. The next step will be to reinstall the rear springs and the axle so I can figure out how the shock absorbers work.

Interestingly enough, the night after I got the second drum off, my Dad found another puller at the Englishtown swap meet. It just goes to show that you can usually find what you're looking for easily, after you no longer need it.

Thank you for a year's worth of attention and support!

(none of my photos are loading, please check back later)

 

Tapered axles are the Devil's work.

 

I tossed many AMC 20 axles in favor of Dana 44.Hate those things,but tapered axles should last under a lightly powered Bantam.I'd sure want better brakes tho.

 

I totally agree, working with tapered axles is awful. I have few more photos to share, but they'll probably be posted after Hershey. To all those who are going, enjoy!

 

It's after Hershey and I completely forgot to post new photos. I'll get them up here eventually! In the mean time, the progress must continue.

 

I really wanted to post more, but am still trying to get used to this windows 10. In the mean time, here is a teaser to show you where the car is as of now. As I've mentioned before, this is just a test assembly to see what challenges lie ahead.

I'd say you'd be amazed at how many fasteners, bushings, and general consumables will need to be replaced. On one hand, it's exciting seeing the whole thing come together. On the other, it's a bit daunting realizing how much work truly is waiting for me.

 

Step by step...

 

I thought I had a few more photos to post, however I was mistaken. Unless they are on a different storage drive (which may be entirely possible).

The first photos are of brake drums which I got from a member here. Someone, long ago, actually reinforced these stamped steel brake drums. These tiny drums are known for for poor braking ability, but then again, so are stamped model a drums. Until I saw these, I had no idea that a brake reinforcing band existed, but now that I do; I am a firm believer in the theory. For a little bit of an idea of what reinforcing bands do, click here http://www.varcoinc.com/reinforcingbands.htm .

Unfortunately, no supplier makes these brake reinforcing bands for Bantams or Austins. The main reason why they don't, besides lack of demand, is that the rollers utilized in making these cannot accommodate a curve with such a small diameter. Locally, I found a shop with a water jet that can cut these out of steel stock. It will be costly, but brakes are important.

Looking at these photos, I must have more someplace. When I find them I'll upload them. As you can see, I've installed the rear end onto its springs and have begun trying to sort out the hydraulic shocks. By the way, if you are looking, Bantams use Monroe 950's and 951's. I've also run the brake cables to the rear wheels and have most of them adjusted so they will actuate. So far, the brakes don't seem to self return the cable as they are supposed to, however, I'm not using the best springs currently. I'm saving the new ones for the final build.

However, as I'm going along, I'm taking an inventory of all of the new pieces that I will need to source in order to get this chassis rebuilt and ready for the custom body.

These photos are a little old, and comparing them in my mind to the progress from last night really makes me realize how far the project has come.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

The next step on setting up the frame is figuring out the front hydraulic shock set up. Here are a few photos of what the original set up was supposed to look like and the collection of parts I have. There are some parts that may need to be replaced or reimagined. I have a plan in my head so far which I'll type up at a later point, in the mean time, I'd love to see what your thoughts are. One thing is certain, I do not want to remove the rivets from the front of the frame.

 

Since I last posted, my idea has already changed. Essentially, I have a few things stacked against me:

1) The mounting plates I have aren't in bad shape for a stock restoration, however, for the changes that would be needed to accommodate this chassis they are too far gone.
2) My front shocks are in very bad shape with unequal length arms and poorly done modifications.
3) The connecting links that span between the shock arm and the axle mount have a bushing in the larger end that is no longer useful.
4) I do not want to remove the old rivets from the frame (If I did, this would be a lot easier. These could be installed at the dealer, and I'm sure that no customer would want their whole frame disassembled just for a couple of lousy hydraulic shocks)

The 1940 Bantam utilized Monroe Hydraulic shock bodies 950 and 551, the right and left hand variations. The front and rears have different length arms, but otherwise they are the same units. Supposedly, the 1936 Willys model 77 used the same shocks. However, those cars may be more rare than 1940 Bantams.

My plan to mount front shocks is to create a front mount made of steel, similarly to the original. It will be clearanced to provide room for the rivet heads and the cast frame horn that will be sandwiched between this new mount and the steel frame rails. Rather than weld the new bracket to the frame, or do something like that, I am planning on running two well proportioned bolts through the stamped frame rail, the cast frame horn, appropriate spacers, and the mounting bracket.

Since I am making new brackets, I will be taking another liberty. On ebay, a pair of NOS monroe 953 shocks were for sale that are dimensionally a little bigger than the Bantam units. I'm hoping that these larger and partially adjustable shocks will allow for better damping of the front suspension. The arms are much longer than the correct Bantam units, but since I would have had to do a lot of work to an original set of Bantam shock arms I can just work on making new arms for these other shocks. I won't destroy a restorable pair of originals and I'll have a good pair (hopefully better) of shocks.

The intermediate links had bushings in them to allow for some multiaxial motion between the frame mounted shock and the axle pin. However, The bushing is shot. For this link, I am planning to make a similar shaped unit that will ride in a bushing where it meets the shock arm and will terminate in a heim joint attached to the axle pin.

Finally, the new axle pin will be lengthened to allow for the additional installation of the Bantam specific friction shock.

By having both hydraulic and friction shocks at all four corners, I am hoping that a dual action methodology will improve the ride and provide for more stability due to the inherent motion restraints imposed by the friction shocks.

So, that's the idea. What do you think?

Also, here are a few photos of the assembled chassis. Pretty soon it will be time to tear it down and start making the components like new again!

 

This little baby is going to be customized in so many other ways, the shocks deserve no less attention. Carry on!

 

Terrific. Keep on thinking!

 

So, as it turns out, the 953 stamping is actually the part number of the Monroe inspection cover. The seller's measurements that lead me to believe that these shocks were larger than the original Bantam shocks were wrong. He took the measurement of the other set of bolts on a bracket which the actual mounting bolts were mounted to. So, in other words, I should have bought these months ago!

The arms will still need to be modified, however, they are NOS shocks that seem to function very well.

 

Tonight, I opened a couple of holes up that were preventing me from fully attaching the rear shocks. The heads of the bolts will need to be clearanced in order to fit well, but I won't do that until I pick up some more bolts. By the way, my local Lowes hasn't replenished any of the grade 8 hardware since I bought all of it. I guess I'll need to go to another (better) hardware store. That's tomorrow project.

On the front shocks, Greg had a very good idea of modifying the existing arms on the new shocks. I will work on investigating that, but until then, I am turning my focus onto the links that will eventually connect the axle to the arm. In my searching, I found something called a uniball or a Johnny Joint. It's an interesting thing, essentially a rebuildable heim joint with a weldable exterior case. I'm going to look into this more in the near future, but this may be the best solution to replacing the severely degraded (and irreplaceable) ball joint. Although the smallest uniball is 2" OD and 7/16" OD the current ball joint is 1 3/4" OD and has a shaft essentially with a diameter of 3/8". Size wise and functionality wise, this may be the best option. It will even allow me to weld a piece of metal onto it that will fit appropriately into a rubber bushing in the arm. Otherwise, I could end up using two heim joints, or ending up with something less than aesthetically pleasing.

If I go this way, I'll end up with rebuildable shock links, so in another 70 years, I can fix my shocks to get this thing moving the way I remember it.

Uniballs: http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1167

(I'll add some photos later from the currie website)

 

Think of it this way Richard. The space between the rivet and the body has been dry for 70 plus years (compressed together) and they are not rusted out. Also you could soak these rivets in a rust remover type liquid and this liquid would find it's way between the rivets (if there was an entry point) You can put this rust remover onto a piece of towel type material and lay it onto the rivets and let it soak and do it's work.
Then you could use a red oxide primer which bites into metal the best of any primers I have ever used. Also you could thin the primer so that it would wick into the area, then putting a thicker coat later. Do not ever use Rustoleum regular primer. It will not adhere to automotive type paints because it has fish oils in it.
The Rustoleum automotive primer is ok to use.