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1936 Flathead engine number location?????

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 47chevycoupe, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. I was wondering where the engine 'stamped' numbers are? In Missouri they used the engine numbers for the title. I presently am trying to get the title issue cleared up. The highway patrol will be inspecting the car and verfiying the engine #'s. After numerous call to the HP they have no idea where its located, was told to clean the engine off and they will look for it..................
     
  2. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,213

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    During assembly Ford stamped the bellhousing with a serial number that included a * (star) at the end so the number could not be modified. They then stamped the same number on the top of the frame on the drivers side above the rear axle, in front of the firewall between the steering box and the radiator. It may require some cleaning to find it but the number should be there.

    Hope this helps,

    Jim
     
  3. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,586

    Dale Fairfax
    Member

    That number "on the bellhousing" was NOT on the engine. Rather, it was it was on the TRANSMISSION bell. The engines and transmissions were shipped as assemblies from the Rouge Engine plant.
     
  4. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 19,519

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    The same number was stamped on frame in left front area. Locate that one so car has a permanent number. You are looking for something like *18-xxxxxx*
     
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  5. The number that I am looking for is the actual stamped # that was on the engine. The frame and trans numbers are not listed on my title just the engine number.
     
  6. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 19,519

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    There is not and never was a number on the engine, unless someone added it! The trans number IS the serial number of the car, and it was repeated on the frame so car is permanently marked.
     
  7. HotRodFreak
    Joined: Mar 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,909

    HotRodFreak
    Member

    YEP engine has no stamped VIN number as does the tranny and frame.
     
  8. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,213

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    From Mac VanPelts website (without permission just trying to help out here Mac)

    Print this out nd show it to the Missouri HP it outta work for you:

    Other: From 1932 through 1948 vehicles, Ford Motor Company stamped the serial number into the top of the driver's side frame rail in three locations. This same number was also stamped into the top of the transmission-to-engine housing portion of the transmission. This location was visible when the floorboard and transmission cover plate were removed (click here for a picture example). Of the frame-stamped serial numbers, only the forward-most stamping was visible when looking down into the engine compartment (located between the front crossmember and the dash (firewall). The two other frame locations are visible only when the body is removed from the frame. The serial numbers were metal stamped with numbers/letters approximately 1/4" in height.
    The number (including the prefixes shown) was always preceded by (and followed by) a stamped "star" similar to an asterisk. It is believed that this was done to prevent someone from fraudulently adding a digit to the beginning or ending of a serial number in order to alter its identification. From the Ford Service Bulletins there is a bulletin dated April 15, 1938 that refers to "Engine Numbers". The subject covers the use of the correct stamps when reconditioned cylinder assemblies are stamped by dealers. The bulletin goes on to say that the dealers should use the K.R. Wilson number A404B stamp set. The 1940 K.R. Wilson tool catalog shows the A404B stamp set of 11 stamps (numbers 0 thru 9 plus the "star"). The same catalog shows a new number A404 stamp set of three (just the 6 stamp, the 9 stamp, and the I stamp). The K.R. Wilson catalog states that "The design of engine numbers has been changed to lessen the possibility of outside individuals attempting to change engine numbers. The figures I-6-9 have been changed. Dealers should immediately provide themselves with the new figures - One-Six-Nine. See Ford Service Bulletin, Subject No. 6000 (Engine) Page 22."
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Well thats not good.......the title to the car says Engine No. under it is 3-0***** that is the only number on the title. The frame number is not on the title anywhere.

    Without the title that car is not worth much. Ebay purchases................:mad::mad::mad:........................I am just an idiot :eek: live and learn.
     
  10. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,213

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    What state is the title from?????
     
  11. shadetreerodder
    Joined: Aug 4, 2006
    Posts: 189

    shadetreerodder
    Member

    If I am not mistaken, isn't the bellhousing part of the engine casting on the early flathead v8? If so this would be the engine number. As previously stated above the engine and frame numbers are the same on early Fords.
     
  12. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 19,519

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    It is on the TRANSMISSION half of the bell.
    Now...post state and the number, with a couple digits X'd for security...My guess would be a state assigne number (which would actually refer to a state-attached plate wth the number), quite possibly a perfectly good title (I have a B with P for Pennsylvania title, little tag riveted to firewall) OR a dead end like a serial applied to the block as a warrantee thing by an engine rebuilder. Bottom line...does that non-Ford number refer to something actually on the car and usable? There is nothing actually wrong with a state assigned number...common on old cars being resurrected, and MUCH safer than a purchased title and owner stamped frame, which is likely a felony.
     
  13. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,586

    Dale Fairfax
    Member

    Read Buce's post again. There IS NO number on a Flathead Ford engine block that means anything. There may be some numbers stamped by rebuilders; there may be some date code stamps; but NOTHING that establishes identity. The bell cast on the back of early blocks is NOT part of the transmission-the early transmissions had a partial bell of their own and that's where the number was.
     
  14. 36-3window
    Joined: Apr 10, 2002
    Posts: 10,846

    36-3window
    Member

    just stamp the number you have onto the motor
     
  15. shadetreerodder
    Joined: Aug 4, 2006
    Posts: 189

    shadetreerodder
    Member

    Interesting to know. I have a Forty Ford that someone dropped a 21 stud Flathead in so I have no way of knowing what year engine I really have in the car? Are there any other ways of identifying these engines by year?
     
  16. mtflat
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 417

    mtflat
    Member

    Nope - nothing for sure. You might find individual part numbers, but unless they all are original they've likely been swapped for replacement parts at one time or another.

    You can generally get it into a range of years, but that's as close as you get.

    21 stud: where are the waterpumps? On the heads or front of the block. If on the heads, are there block-off plates on the block or not? etc, etc, etc,
     
  17. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 19,519

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    You do not want numbers on a motor! Any change and you have no serial on car. Think about number verification after an insured crash! Oops...we can't cover that car! Or a theft...
    You need a number on the frame. Also, the state if it cannot get what it is asking for now...an engine number...will check the serial number reference book, and could take it very seriously if you have just stamped a number where the factory did not.
    Engine is wrong place, and would be actually illegal if factory stamped.
    And look at modern cars...engine gets a serial, but less than full VIN info, which is on the body...because the engine is a bad place, a componenet that can be changed out.
     
  18. shadetreerodder
    Joined: Aug 4, 2006
    Posts: 189

    shadetreerodder
    Member

    The pumps are in the front of the block no block off plates in heads. Heads seen to be iron. Also has dual cap distributor.
     
  19. Southfork
    Joined: Dec 15, 2001
    Posts: 1,412

    Southfork
    Member

    This thread prompted me to just go out to the garage and look at the frame serial numbers on both a '33 and a '34 Ford that I have. I noted that on the '33 frame there was no "18" prefix or stars (just the 6-digit serial number), whereas on the '34 frame there was both the stars and the 18 prefix. What really freaks me out though, is the title that came with the car has a "40" prefix rather than the "18" prefix. Otherwise the serial number is the same. It would appear that Ford was not all that consistent.
     
  20. Charlie Stephens
    Joined: Sep 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,805

    Charlie Stephens
    Member

    Shadetreerodder,

    If it is 21 studs and the water pumps are in the front of the block it is '37 or '38 (although some '38's used 24 studs).

    Charlie Stephens
     
  21. 38fordpickup
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 3,009

    38fordpickup
    Member

    Early '38s used leftover 21 stud '37 engines, the switch to the new 24 stud engines came as individual plants used up their stock of the '37 engines. Everything built after about January or February '38 got the 24 stud.
     
  22. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,213

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    Some motors had a series of numbers stamped on the top right rear intake deck. These were actually build or rebuild date codes. Look closely in this area for stamped numbers. Could these possibly match whats on the title if they're there??????
     

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