I have a 4 cylinder Hercules that ran a welder. I don't have any specs on it. In my searches I have had little luck in finding old rod specs. You'd think with all the old books out there some computer geek would make a list for us.
I have spent most of the day re reading this thread and didn't get very far. After reading the posts of the Hot Rod Hill Climb I have been rethinking the engine choice for my '26 Chevy roadster. I have almost completed the 153 Chevy II but since everything else fits the '54 cutoff for the hill climb I started thinking of my '28 Chevy. A friend and I have been doing some trading, He has lots of Chevy 4 and T stuff and I had some 292 six parts he wanted. Yesterday I took him a set of 292 Venolia pistons trying to catch up on my side of the parts rehoming. He handed me a nice set of Durant rods and said that he was looking for his other set of Chevy crank counter weights. He showed me two other rods. One was a '28 Chevy. The Durant was 1/2-3/4" longer but has the same size big end and I think top too. That is an early Durant up to '27 I think. The third rod was also Durant. It was the same length as the first but the big and is 2" and could be used with a B or C Ford crank. He also said that the '29 Chevy 6 rod was the same as the 2" Durant. I'll still probably start with the 153 but will build so the '28 can be swapped in. I know Mel will help me build it. At least tell me what I need to know. Here are pictures of his racer and his pickup.
This is a very interesting thread. I've been wondering about a few things; Will a Morris A - series mill be a good crank donor. Iirc they was counterweight, 3 mains and drilled for pressure. And Volvo B21 pistons first oversize is 93mm. They have 21 or 24 wrist pin. someone has a length of piston crown to center of main bearing I can maybe provide some info of some euro stuff that might be adaptable. And regarding doing pressure oiling, the danish motorbike manufacture a nice pressure system for the 1936 nimbus. Its very simple system with a small gear driven oil pump that pressurized the mains with a small plumbing network run un the inside of the block, and with small fittings in the lower caps, that holds the main bearing in place. So it's very remove able, and easier the drilling the block. The presure pushed a small amount in to the wristpin true holes in the crank. I try finding some photos. They actually end up undoing it because of the quality of the oil and went to use small nozzles to put a mist of oil toward pistons and big end bearings. I got a little taken by this stuff. If I can borrow the tools from my work tonight I might try do so measurement. Also the rockers And the cam followers maybe there is a good match in some other parts, that can be had new, and bring some upgrade to those old mill. You formed some good ideers in my head about doing a 1928 four banger install in my project opposed to a "modern" stovebolt six.
Being a recent new owner of a '28 Phaeton I've also read this fantastic thread end-to-end. It's an interesting idea to search for a European crank to fit in one of these motors, especially for those of us who live in Europe where there aren't the remains Chevy fours and the like just lurking in hedgerows! The picture should show an A series crank (refugee from another project) in front of my '28 Chevy motor, it is counterweighted. but unfortunately is way too short end to end to fit in the C4. Even the three bearing B series BMC cranks -MGA early MGB etc. would still be too short I think. The crank from an Austin A90 Atlantic and Austin Healey 100-4 (same motor) might fit though; the problem is (at least in the UK) the're not common anymore either. My Phaeton is completely stock at the moment. Based on the really useful information contained in this thread, I will be doing a few modifications to increase the usability/drivability of this fine car.
Okay, it was just a case of me thinking out of the box. How much to short? and of someone can help doing some measuring of a Chevy 4 aposed to the BMC. Becaused it cant be more rare, or less complicated, then counterweigth the "C" crank with a balacing and everything. But could it be elongated between the counterweigth, and just presuricing all the mains and make them lube the the throws. Aposed to run oil all the way true the crank. Again this is just me thinking outside the box to give the really skilled people some idear
A quick hit with the tape measure looks like the crank is 22.125 from the rear or the rear main to the front of the front main. I could give you bore centers if you want. But I am not pulling the main caps to measure journal length.
This is just another far out ideer; Ferguson tractor crank, petrol engine run 3 mains too. I don't have one off hand to meassure. But I keep searching.
Hi The stroke of Standard four cylinder engine (The one used in Ferguson, Vanquard and even in Triumph TR3 and TR4 sportcars) is 92mm so it is 11,5 mm shorter than Chevys original 4" stroke. I do not know the other measures of the crank (we sold our Vanquard wreck years ago). If it would be adaptable, with longer rods it would theoretically be a better revver. volvobrynk, what is a grown height (from center of the pin to top) of the B21 piston? Got to ask my cousin about Ferguson engines. He spends his money and time with old tractors.
It seems they are only 30.5 mm/1.200 inch. But if one goes true all these trouble longer rod's wouldent be a big issue.
If you are buying special rods from Crower or somebody like them. They cost a lot. My Chevy uses modified model A rods. My counterweights are welded to the stock crank. It sounds like adapting a more modern European crank would be a bigger can of worms than the way it's always been done. Good idea if you can make it work.
I'm still trying to find someone with a Willys Go Devil or CJ2/3 engine to see if that crank would work.
It's not a complete list, but this site has a table that has bore-centre spacing for a lot of engines ... http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablersn.htm
Handy. But none of those look like a '28 Chevy. I posted inhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/is-this-a-willys.995053/#post-11215215 the thread It's about Willys engines among other things. Some guy emailed me about Willys engines and seemed to know a lot about them. He would have the measurements you need, I bet. The bad news is I deleted his emails, and don't know how to get back to him. You might try posting in that thread and see what happens.
Yes, but I would be possible to find something that haven't been tried because I migth be rare on your side, but more avalible over here. And if we find a match I can ship it to you! and if you make it work I migth do it my self. It's the out of the box thinking that appeals to me in all this. But there most be something that's closer, we just have to find it!
I agree that there might be something out there that may have been overlooked or was produced after the popularity of these engines passed. I have spent a lot of time searching for rod specifications. Somewhere there should be a list of every rod ever mass produced with big and small end bores, center to center length, and end widths. I can't find it. A few old books have some information.
Bill I looked into this back when I started messing with C4's and there were enough things to make it look like welding c'weights on the the stock crank--as Rich said---was the way to go--so that's what I did. Don't ask what all the problem points are- I don't remember. I don't remember what I had for breakfast.
Sure, but when someone actually posts the bore spacing of a '28 Chevy it will make it easier for Volvobrynk to rule out a whole bunch of donor cranks Most modern 4-cylinders would have the bores way to close, but one that stood out in the list as a possibility is the early-sixties Pontiac Tempest Slant-4, which has 4.620 bore spacing. The stroke is 3.75 inches so less than the '28 Chevy but still might be worth a look.
Another thing to keep in mind is that many early inline engines didn't have bore spacing that was symmetrical from cylinder to cylinder. The Stovebolt is a good example, because it didn't have a main bearing bulkhead between each cylinder, the cylinders that did have a bulkhead between them had a wider spacing than the cylinders that didn't. You can tell in the last picture posted, the crank has 3 mains, and the spacing between #2 and #3 cylinders is farther apart than either #1 and #2, or #3 and #4.
Exactly. Plus the Pontiac was half of a 389 V8. As such it had 5 mains. Not really a drop in. Journal diameter difference means lots of grinding if it would fit. No good on the Pontiac. I'll go out to the shop and measure the bore centers in a little while.
OK. As I measure it. Bore centers on 1-2 and 3-4 is 4 inches. Between two and three 5 1/4 inches. I don't think you will find anything built after 1955 with centers like that. CNC dude. You make Wayne heads?
Now if you want to see how a 1926 crank should look, check this out. Dodge Bros. You can clearly see the difference between 1=2 and 3=4 compared to 2-3. Dodge saw the error of their ways and added two more mains in 26. Didn't have room to make them s wide as the others.
Here is the billet 5 main crank Curt Giovanine had Scat crankshafts make. It is possible and has been done.
Oh yeah it can be done. people do it to Fords all the time. But the OP is interested in a newer, more available in Europe, crank that can be used in a Chevy 4. The billet crank, welded in main webs deal is not what I think he has in mind.
Sorry, I was replying to your post, I should have quoted. Now to the european members there was a German Ford 4 cylinder based on the US Ford B / C engine. I did a search on G28T found the thread G28T, GERMAN FOUR BANGER these were made into the 50s by the sound of it the crank is equivalent to the B or C crank.
That is a pretty interesting engine. You would think they would be something banger guys were finding and running. Will a model A crank fit in a Chevy block? The Chevy looks so small, compared to a Ford. But I don't have a Ford here. Just the Chevy and a Dodge. The Dodge Bros is big compared to a Ford or Chevy or Plymouth. I still think welding counter weights on is the most direct and least expensive way to have a counterweighted crank in a Chevy four. But if you could find something that worked, maybe not.
The German 4 banger would be the closes thing in Europe to what the guys in the US were using in the 30s and 40s. They are rare and $$ but an avenue to explore. Ford cranks do fit the Chevy block with mods, the block mains need to be line bored to the Ford dimensions the mains bolt holes need to be filled and tapped out further or do like they did in the 40s and fill the bolt holes and drill thru to the flat area between 2 & 3 cylinder (I will find a pic to illustrate). No 2 & 3 rods needs around 1/4 cut off one side and welded to the other side to centre the rod in the bore. The block needs to be notched/relieved where the rods rotate, that is basically what they did. You have to remember these engines were pumping out 110-150hp in that period the Chevy crank was too weak to handle that kinda power anything under 90hp would likely be ok to build a counterbalanced Chev crank. This is meant to be Rufi's block
Rich, I have cylinder head casting patterns similar to what Mike Kirby at Sissell Automotive has for the later Chevy 250/292 engines. Ironically, both his and mine were made by the same person, Frank Duggan in Australia, of Duggan Cylinder head fame. I just upped my game today and bought a new CNC milling machine, I already have the 3D modeling software and CAM software to generate the CNC programs. I have always been interested in the GMC and earlier vintage engines, so I would like to make patterns for the GMC and others as well. I am open to suggestions also for other products as well. I also own an aluminum foundry now that is capable of pouring large castings like a cylinder head and engine block. I feel a busy winter coming on. LOL
Couple of 12 port heads available for the GMC (Arias-Fontana) It seems like the 235-261 Chevy guys are left out. I helped a little with the Jack's Bar, Duggan 250 Chevy roadster at Bonneville. Seemed OK but I was more into my Howard and Hourning-Fisher head GMCs.
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