Since I have never owned a quick change rear end, or been around a hot rod equipped with one, I am curious as to what they actually sound like when driving. I am still considering popping for a new Winters Nostalgia quick change for my 26 RPU and would like to be able to hear what they sound like in operation. That's if a video would do me any good and if any are around.
You probably already know that the sound comes from the straight cut spur gears and that you can (with a little work) replace them with helical cut gears and eliminate the objectionable (to some) noise. If you've heard a SBC with a straight cut timing gear you know it has a distinctive whine and the QC has the same whine only much louder. I have a Halibrand in my '28 and above 70mph it does have a very noticeable whine. Other people will say they barely hear theirs. The best videos I ever heard of the distinctive QC whine is sprint cars while they are packing the track. You can probably find that on youtube. I recently purchased the Winters/Dick Spadaro QC for my 4 cylinder powered '26 T and I think it is the best deal on the market for a lower horse power installation.
I don't have a way to record mine, but if I can get one of my kids to help me with the technical aspects I will try later. Might be early next week. Here is what I have learned over the years. For a street car, you almost can't get the backlash too tight. Remember, the case is aluminum and since it will expand, the clearance between the carrier bearings will increase. I like to see no more that .002" backlash and on my own shop truck I set it at 0.000". It is very quiet with straight cut spur gears and with helical cut gears, I can't even hear it. I do use gear marking compound to verify the pattern on the drive and coast sides. The last time I went to the oval track races, the quick changes were much quieter than I remembered. I believe that this is due to the highly finished gears REM? and the use of synthetic oils. You can PM me if you need a price on a Winters.
This one has a Halibrand champ with helical gears. It's a long video but the first couple of minutes will give you the sound. You will notice a "click" sound when I let out the clutch, maybe I should shim the spur gears a little tighter, but it has been making the same sound for nearly 20,000 miles and the owner hasn't complained. http://youtu.be/7kxb6cmTFhs
Here is my ex coupe, with a winters set up, straight cut gears http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVlg1mrMq-k
I have seen guys who used quick changes in circle track racing. I will never forget one time during testing and hot laps when they decided to make a quick gear change before the test session was over. One lap later the driver pulled back into the pits and informed the crew they had put the gears in backwards!!!!!!!! The guy who changed the gears had done it many times in the past and could not believe he had them in backwards. I guess when you are in a hurry it can and does happen. Jimbo
In our tow truck right above the change gear box was a hand painted sign, "Big gear on top!" Wonder why that was there.
The Frankland in my Model A pickup doesn't sound to bad driving it , but if you follow it at 70 MPH, it just SCREAMS ! LOVE it !!! Chris
Yah its worth it. Mine got way quieter with interior. Well i hear it less anyway. I dont change the gears as much as i told myself i would. But its fun. Do you guys experience a slight side to side movement when starting out or shifting up or down(aggressively)? I feel like its just the whole car moving the tire sidewall on the front. I got panhard bars so that isnt it. Thought it might be the way the gears are. It also seems that the front doesnt lift under hard acceleration is this cause the pinion is on the other side? Does it plant the front tires?
No video, just some info. I'm running a Halibrand V8 in my roadster with #3 change gears and a 3:78 r/p (4:11 ratio). A gear whine starts around 38 mph, gets louder, and then goes away (along with the loud exhaust note ) near 60 mph, with the top removed. You can actually carry on a conversation at 60. However, with the top and windows in place, the interior noise level can be very annoying, and requires ear plugs for long enjoyable road trips. I think several things could influence QC noise levels: The type of change gears. A larger high ratio drive gear may be louder than a smaller low ratio drive gear. Running with a top v.s. open. Quantity/quality of body insulation.
To me, it is more of a whistle, but my ears are shot. If the sound is objectionable, do what I did, get a Weatherby 300 magnum with a muzzle brake, shoot it a few hundred times without ear protection. Also works well for objectionable wife noises!
Yeah, the noise factor is inversely proportional to the level of hearing loss caused by a multitude of things.
Not nearly as loud as a Pete Jackson camshaft gear drive. A friend is running a Winters V-8 and has a soft whine at speed. In some Sprint car races (also IMCA Late Models) you hear a variety of decibel levels coming from the car's QCs. Used Champ QuickChange rears are readily available, especially down south, but you are buying a "pig-in-a-poke". You have no idea what wars that axle has been through, and some battle scars are difficult to detect. Maybe Gearhead might like to butt in here: he's had lots of experience rebuilding used units.
I'm all about butting in. The following is an excerpt from the rough draft of my looong term book on Quick Changes. V8 or 3/4 Ton Ask yourself, Self, How much power (really torque) am I going to have? And, How much tire am I running? Lets face it, most of us like to FEEL something when we step on the loud pedal, but that shouldnt be the feeling of the Quick Change disintegrating. Not that they are terribly weak, but remember the Ford Flathead was 85 H.P. and the V-8 rear end was based on components designed for use with this engine. If you have more than about 300 H.P. or 300 ft./lbs. of torque, and tires that really can get hooked up, think real hard before using a V-8 rear. <O</OWith the Nostalgia trend, we are getting a lot of calls for used V-8 rears. With a Flathead, 4 cylinder or mild small block, the V-8 will be fine. If you get into racing, even with limited horsepower, you need modern guts and axles. Yes, the old timers used the old Ford stuff, but remember, that stuff is really old now, and they would have loved to replace those old axles with what we have available today. The V-8 section explains your choices.<O</O The ¾ Ton will easily handle more than double the torque and the Super Modified guys use them with 20 wide tires. We prefer and recommend the ¾ ton unit in almost every application. All the parts are available to make a tough, reliable rear end. Top to bottom diameter is about 12 ½ while the V-8 is about 10 ½. From the center line of the axle, this is about an inch either way. This is not that noticeable on most cars. What normally makes the ¾ Ton look so big is the large stock car style side bells. There are alternatives to these bells and we have built many rears using visual tricks to make them look smaller.<O</O The choice is yours, but you should consider the ¾ ton for most applications. Certainly, cars that have big power and big tires (and intend to use them) should be ¾ Ton equipped.<O</O
And.......... NEW OR USED? That is a good question. You can probably determine whether a new or used rear end best fits your needs by being really honest about your car. Like every other aspect of building or modifying a car, what is the intended use? If you are building a real showpiece that has to be perfect in every detail, then you will want to start with a new rear end. There are very few used rear ends around that dont have any battle scars on them. I have told many customers that I have never seen a rear end that could not be repaired but I have seen a whole bunch that wouldnt be cost effective to fix up. Piecing together a new rear end from individual parts increases the cost substantially, up to 60% more than a complete new assembly.<O</O If you are considering a used rear end, there are several things to look for. First, is this the rear end that you really want? If you want a real nostalgia piece, you shouldnt buy a Winters Enduro or Hawk because they just werent available in the old days. Conversely, there are rear ends that lend themselves to the High Tech look more than a vintage Halibrand with Ford trumpets.<O</O Secondly, how much time and money (really the same thing) am I going to have to put in this rear end to get what I want? There really are very few used Quick Change rear ends that can just be bolted into a street rod. Almost all of them started life in a race car and have to be modified for street use.<O</O The single most expensive item to purchase new is a differential. Most of the race cars have spools or live axles which dont work well on the street. If you find a used rear end with a differential in it, you may be able to cut your costs significantly. Be careful here. The old Ford Differential that was originally used in the ¾ ton trucks used 12 spline axles and was an open unit (not a limited slip). There were Detroit Locker assemblies made that fit these differential cases, but they are not available new anymore. There are 31 spline side gears that are available for the old locker. If you have a 12 spline differential, we can supply custom axles that allow Ford 3.150 housing ends to be used.<O</O If you are buying a used rear end, definitely take off the left side bell. Look very carefully at the straddle mount bearing pocket. Many, many of these are cracked or have a piece missing. I think this occurs two different ways; Something comes apart in the rear end and finds its way between the Ring & Pinion or; A car contacts the wall or something else and this pushes the ring gear around quite a bit. This is so common in open wheel racing that some of the racers call this The Factory Crack. A lot of the older rear ends were machined very thin here. This is one area that has been really beefed up in later cases.<O</O What if you find a crack or piece broken out? NEGOTIATE!!! This can be repaired. Explain to the seller, shipping costs (2 ways) and the cost of the repair. This should help you get the price down. Keep in mind the cost of a new case. Note: We used to repair these quite often but the time and cost to do the job correctly is too high! To do it right, the case needs to be stripped, the crack welded (both inside and out). The case is then located and clamped on a boring mill and remachined. This repair is now $300.00 on aluminum and $350.00 for magnesium. A new case is about $400.00. We have seen a number of these rear ends run with a crack in the straddle mount housing. Many Sprinters weld them until they get tired of it then just run them broken. I have also run a couple units with no straddle mount bearing at all. I'm sure that to have it in there is best, but it can be done. (I wouldn't try this on a V-8 or Mini Stock rear end). <O</O I have fixed cases that had some pretty large cracks around the change gear cavity, but I wouldnt buy a case in this condition. <O</O Another area to look at is the Ring & Pinion gears. If there are no pits in the root of the pinion, you probably can use them. Most are junk. If the pinion bearings seize, and spin in their bore, this is hard to fix.<O</O The lower shaft might be bent too. You can see this by rolling it on a table or if it is in the case, look at each end while rotating it. If you can see any wobble, it is bent and will probably need replacing. I will straighten a lower shaft if I cant get a new one, but I dont like to do it. <OThings to think about: Differentials- 'Lockers' are noisier and notchier than other differentials. Lockers are the most positive differentials. True Trac style diffs are smoother than lockers Gleason Torsen type differentials are the ultimate street car limited slip differentials. Aluminum is much easier to care for than magnesium. Magnesium is 1/3 lighter than aluminum. 31 spline Quick Change parts are compatible with 31 spline Ford parts. 12 spline parts are harder to find but much cheaper. 12 spline axles are available to use with Big Ford bearings to enable the use of push in axles and later Ford brakes. Forget about the noise and have some fun. No, you won't change gears that often on a street car. But when you do, you will have at least an hour more to drink beer afterward than guys doing the same with a 9". By the way, 3/4 ton Quick Changes have a 10" (SIZE DOES MATTER)
I have a straight cut gear Quickchange, a Pete Jackson gear drive, and a 4 speed in my Model A pickup, all kind of Weird noises come out of it ! on the 8, 1500 mile trips to Bonneville, I SOMETIMES wear ear plugs. THANKS Chris
What is the difference between a Gleason Torsen type differential and a DPI black gold ? We have a DPI to modify to fit a Champ housing. How is the traction on your book........ ?
The main difference is in the orientation of the gears. Supposedly, the Torsen is stronger because the gears run cross wise to the axles. The DPI will be fine. One word of caution though, the Dan Press units are often preloaded. Tight, Half Tight etc. This is not required or desirable on a street car. There will be markings on the case. '2 AT' or similar. You can back off the 4 set screws on each end to eliminate the preload. Just touching is what you need. The book is a SLOW process.
The Jalopy Journal
