Welcome to the THE H.A.M.B. forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Go Back   THE H.A.M.B. > General Discussion > The Hokey Ass Message Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-05-2013, 10:53 AM   #1
SloppyEggs
Grenade Inspector
 
SloppyEggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 209
Default SBC in '50 Shoebox

I just picked up a 327 for my shoebox, and I know that there are a few different swap kits for this and I'm probably going to end up with the one from www.Butchscoolstuff.com. I was wondering if anyone had pictures of their install. The website says that there is good clearance except for around the oil pan and center link, and recommends dropping the steering. They also say that it is "possible" to use a Chevy II oil pan. My question is, when they say that it is "possible" does that mean it will work or it may work? Hopefully you guys can give me a little insight.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1395912_10152045508981622_1922158540_n.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	56.4 KB
ID:	2068613  
__________________
"If it tastes like chicken, keep on lickin. If it tastes like trout, get the fuck out."
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 08:16 AM   #2
SloppyEggs
Grenade Inspector
 
SloppyEggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 209
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Dang, no one?

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
__________________
"If it tastes like chicken, keep on lickin. If it tastes like trout, get the fuck out."
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #3
studeboy
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Charlotte, MI, USA
Posts: 536
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Try this article from Street Rodder. It may have the info you're looking for


http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/...g_motor_mounts

Keep us updated. Good luck.
__________________
Eric
49 Studebaker P/U
50 Ford Custom Tudor
offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-07-2013, 09:28 AM   #4
Pist-n-Broke
Old School HAMBer
 
Pist-n-Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Rust Country P.N.W.
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Any time you change mount points of steering your going to have an effect on what happens at the tires. Not sure if you can just modify the center of the cross link or not to get what you need. My choice would be the Chevy 11 pan that is shorter and raise the motor for the rest of needed space. Over the counter kits generally bring along several issues not related to that part of the project no matter what your doing. I went a different way in my 51, no kit.
The Wizzard
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Under the Hood 001.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	399.2 KB
ID:	2070026   Click image for larger version

Name:	Under the Hood 002.jpg
Views:	141
Size:	415.2 KB
ID:	2070027   Click image for larger version

Name:	Under the Hood 003.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	412.4 KB
ID:	2070028  

offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #5
SloppyEggs
Grenade Inspector
 
SloppyEggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 209
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

I ended up finding a good used Chevy II oil pan and pick-up tube locally. So hopefully that'll take care of the clearance issue with the steering. After doing a few searches, it looks like Butch's kit will work. I've decided to pass on the jamco kit because of the horror stories I've heard about their customer service. When I get everything I'll post some pics of the fitment.

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
__________________
"If it tastes like chicken, keep on lickin. If it tastes like trout, get the fuck out."
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #6
SloppyEggs
Grenade Inspector
 
SloppyEggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 209
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by studeboy View Post
Try this article from Street Rodder. It may have the info you're looking for


http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/...g_motor_mounts

Keep us updated. Good luck.

Thanks studeboy. That's really helpful!

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
__________________
"If it tastes like chicken, keep on lickin. If it tastes like trout, get the fuck out."
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 05:13 PM   #7
3CDFL
FNG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 10
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

I used the speedway kit for sbc in my 51 and modified my steering by making a dropped Pitman arm and lowering idler arm level out the center link.

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 06:55 PM   #8
Pist-n-Broke
Old School HAMBer
 
Pist-n-Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Rust Country P.N.W.
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CDFL View Post
I used the speedway kit for sbc in my 51 and modified my steering by making a dropped Pitman arm and lowering idler arm level out the center link.

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I bet that's a Joy to drive.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 08:05 PM   #9
BRENT
Grenade Inspector
 
BRENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 220
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
I used the speedway kit for sbc in my 51
Which kit is this? Im looking at doing this right now with my 49 box right now and I did not see such a kit. I had to order the mount kit through Jamco that will bolt to the cross member. all they had was different motor mount styles but nothing that specifically for our shoebox's

Rumour has it that if you use a small flywheel with I think 152 teeth it will clear the linkage. I also have a old dropped draglink sitting in the corner just in case. Seems to be a lot of mixed info out there about doing the swap.

Also I think you need to use full size van headers to clear the steering box.
__________________
Watch light bend in the blower.
online   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 08:23 PM   #10
Atomic Kustom
Newbie
 
Atomic Kustom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kustomville Kansas
Posts: 95
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Hay man just stop by and check mine out. I used a kit that Butch sells (made by Opies hot rod parts) Fits well I just used a regular pan and dropped the the pitman and idler arm. Should be around most of the day on Sunday!!!
__________________
" Don't take it personal, I hate everyone "
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 08:37 PM   #11
3CDFL
FNG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 10
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

It's in the drive train section of the catalog, has several options for motors and vehicles

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 08:38 PM   #12
3CDFL
FNG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 10
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pist-n-Broke View Post
I bet that's a Joy to drive.
It drives fine, no noticeable change from stock

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #13
Hnstray
Alliance Member
 
Hnstray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Quincy, IL
Posts: 4,977
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CDFL View Post
It drives fine, no noticeable change from stock

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

The fact that you don't "notice" a change from stock is not the same as there being no change. You have changed (lowered) the inner pivot point of the outer tie rods and thereby changed the geometry of the system. That has to result in undesirable toe changes as the suspension moves up and down when driving.

The long time commonly accepted correct method of dealing with this issue is to keep the stock location of the pitman and idler arms. The center link is "dropped", like a dropped axle, between the pitman and idler. That keeps all the tie rod geometry the same as stock while providing the needed pan clearance.
__________________
"In any conflict between Physics and Style, Physics always wins"
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #14
3CDFL
FNG
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 10
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hnstray View Post
The fact that you don't "notice" a change from stock is not the same as there being no change. You have changed (lowered) the inner pivot point of the outer tie rods and thereby changed the geometry of the system. That has to result in undesirable toe changes as the suspension moves up and down when driving.

The long time commonly accepted correct method of dealing with this issue is to keep the stock location of the pitman and idler arms. The center link is "dropped", like a dropped axle, between the pitman and idler. That keeps all the tie rod geometry the same as stock while providing the needed pan clearance.
Guess I did it wrong then

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 09:54 PM   #15
BRENT
Grenade Inspector
 
BRENT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 220
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
The center link is "dropped", like a dropped axle, between the pitman and idler. That keeps all the tie rod geometry the same as stock while providing the needed pan clearance.
Is there anybody making these dropped center links? I have a old one a friend let me borrow so that I can copy it. Just curious if anybody is making this linkage anymore?

Brent
__________________
Watch light bend in the blower.
online   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 10:33 PM   #16
Rocky
Classified Editor
 
Rocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Bellevue, Nebraska...suburb of Omaha
Posts: 11,131
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Welp, here's what I did: First off, let me say my floor was badly rusted. I removed the floor's center hump because I knew my driveshaft would rub, as low as I wanted to go with the suspension.
I dropped the 350/350 in place after I'd flipped my spindle supports. In doing that, I'd heated and bent my steering arms down to get the tie rods back down on a level plane with the pitman and idler......More on this in a minute.
I used the original 49 ford 6 cylinder mount brackets welded to a couple pieces of scrap 2"X3" boxed tubing which was in turn, welded to my front crossemember. In the photos the ends of the tubing are still open. I closed them in before I put the front sheetmetal back on. The spacers allowed me to sit my engine above the stock 49 ford inner tie rod using the old 77 camaro oil pan. They cleared each other by 5/8ths inch.
Yeah, I had to completely rebuild the floor including a new floor hump but I benefited by having much more oil pan/exhaust/tranny pan clearance. No problems clearing the stock steering box either.
Back to the heated/bent steering arms: Doint that effectively shortened those steering arms, causing quicker steering. I suppose there may have been a little more force needed to make sharp turns afterward but face it...shubox fords have super slow steering from the factory. The short steering arms really speeded up the steering and after I bolted up a 1.25" trans am front stabilizer bar, the little coupe drove/steered/cornered like a corvette! And no bump steer with this setup.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rockyboxmotor.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	63.3 KB
ID:	2071826   Click image for larger version

Name:	rockybox2.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	62.2 KB
ID:	2071827  
__________________
My wife says I never listen to her....at least that's what I think she said.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 12:18 AM   #17
JeffB2
Old School HAMBer
 
JeffB2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix,AZ
Posts: 2,515
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

If you had done a "Ford in a Ford" 302/5.0 with a fox body oil pan with Butch's kit there would be zero alterations needed and you can even use Hedman 88400 headers,1949-50 Shoeboxes have a smaller trans tunnel than the 51's so a 302/C4 combo works in 49-50's the 51's can use an AOD.The dropped center links went away over 25 years ago so you will need to hand fab that be aware that Nova oil pans like this style http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-II-SB-...ba819d&vxp=mtr will give you less ground clearance bad news if the car is lowered,this is what you want:http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-II-SB-...ba819d&vxp=mtr be sure to order the matching pick up tube & screen.
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 08:23 AM   #18
SloppyEggs
Grenade Inspector
 
SloppyEggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 209
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB2 View Post
If you had done a "Ford in a Ford" 302/5.0 with a fox body oil pan with Butch's kit there would be zero alterations needed and you can even use Hedman 88400 headers,1949-50 Shoeboxes have a smaller trans tunnel than the 51's so a 302/C4 combo works in 49-50's the 51's can use an AOD.The dropped center links went away over 25 years ago so you will need to hand fab that be aware that Nova oil pans like this style http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-II-SB-...ba819d&vxp=mtr will give you less ground clearance bad news if the car is lowered,this is what you want:http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVY-II-SB-...ba819d&vxp=mtr be sure to order the matching pick up tube & screen.
Too bad I already have a sbc. I also also have the ChevyII factory oil pan

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
__________________
"If it tastes like chicken, keep on lickin. If it tastes like trout, get the fuck out."
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 09:19 AM   #19
Pist-n-Broke
Old School HAMBer
 
Pist-n-Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Rust Country P.N.W.
Posts: 3,332
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3CDFL View Post
Guess I did it wrong then

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
You would be correct, you just don't know it. Hnstray's explanation is spot on correct. Anything can be made to go in a strait line. Most Hot Rodder's don't know good driving and will most often sacrifice well handling for the ease of installing and looks.
The Wizzard
offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 09:48 AM   #20
SloppyEggs
Grenade Inspector
 
SloppyEggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Louisburg Kansas
Posts: 209
Default Re: SBC in '50 Shoebox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Welp, here's what I did: First off, let me say my floor was badly rusted. I removed the floor's center hump because I knew my driveshaft would rub, as low as I wanted to go with the suspension.
I dropped the 350/350 in place after I'd flipped my spindle supports. In doing that, I'd heated and bent my steering arms down to get the tie rods back down on a level plane with the pitman and idler......More on this in a minute.
I used the original 49 ford 6 cylinder mount brackets welded to a couple pieces of scrap 2"X3" boxed tubing which was in turn, welded to my front crossemember. In the photos the ends of the tubing are still open. I closed them in before I put the front sheetmetal back on. The spacers allowed me to sit my engine above the stock 49 ford inner tie rod using the old 77 camaro oil pan. They cleared each other by 5/8ths inch.
Yeah, I had to completely rebuild the floor including a new floor hump but I benefited by having much more oil pan/exhaust/tranny pan clearance. No problems clearing the stock steering box either.
Back to the heated/bent steering arms: Doint that effectively shortened those steering arms, causing quicker steering. I suppose there may have been a little more force needed to make sharp turns afterward but face it...shubox fords have super slow steering from the factory. The short steering arms really speeded up the steering and after I bolted up a 1.25" trans am front stabilizer bar, the little coupe drove/steered/cornered like a corvette! And no bump steer with this setup.
Thanks for the info Rocky, and for the picture too

Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
__________________
"If it tastes like chicken, keep on lickin. If it tastes like trout, get the fuck out."
offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 AM.