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Old 04-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #1
59 brook
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Default out of round tire problems

can someone please explain to me in simple terms the affects of an out of round tire on suspension and ride comfort. I have a set of 4 tires which needs almost 20 ounces of way to balance. the tire machine says even breaking down and remount thing won't help seems like too much weight for a passenger car tire do you agree
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:10 PM   #2
pitman
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Some shops, the older ones, are able to shave a tire, once a best mount position in nailed down. Starting with a true rim, is the first order of business. You might want to check the date code(s) on the tires, assuming they have them. Unlike rodders, in tires I'm told it does matter. Hopefully they are sound, and reposition, shave if reqd, and balance are the way to go.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Out of round and out of balance are two different things, which is it? Find a tire shop that has the equipment to perform road force balancing which checks wheel/tire concentricity, lateral runout and balance. 20 ounces of weight is too much if it's all on one wheel...
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #4
tred
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

assuming you mean they are out of balance, definitely have the wheels/tires road forced, and then ask to have them indexed as well (the heaviest part of the tire matched to the lightest part of the rim).
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Remember............you can balance a football but it will still be out-of-round.

There are a few considerations, such as match-mounting and concentricity. If you can't find a place on the east coast to shave your tires, PM me for the name of an old-school place in Ft. Myers that will do it right.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

I'd be ticked if it took more than 4 oz to get a regular car tire to balance. Did you try a differnt shop? Could just be the "clown" factor. If the tire is that out of round or flat spotted it might take more work than it's worth to get a smooth ride out of them. The best part of "road force" balance it you'll know right away if you have a junk tire or bent/out of round wheel.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Back in 70's people would bring me recap tires, that some were so far out of balance it was pathetic. These old farmers would say get as close as you can. Easy for them to say.
Back in the late 70's 4 X 4 tires were big, and I had to true some of them up, in order to get smoother ride. I use to spin balance on the vehicle. I used to do a lot of Hot Rods and Street Rods, also.
A lot of people don't know this, but there is a yellow or orange dot. It should be installed where Valve Stem is, it will help a lot. the Factory put them there for that purpose.
Back to the Tire that has so many weights on it, something is done wrong somewhere. Are those tires Blems. or Seconds ? sounds like it to me.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

What kind of wheels? OEM, old wheels? New machined? Some of the old wheels needed to be balanced by using a lug centric attachment, and newer wheels are hub centric. Hope you find a solution, that has to be pain in the ass.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:19 AM   #9
59 brook
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

took it too the first shop who gave me the roadforce printout. it said rims wer good but tires ng. they didnt even bother to balance the wheels as they said the tires were visibly not ro nd. tire dealer asked me to go to another shop which i did, no roadforce printo t sheet so they said we balanced them yet the tires are not ro nd. now the stickon weights fell off (16oz) + approx. 4 more beat on the rim weights . i can't even drive the car now . my opinion is maybe the belts in the tire are shifting . this are radial tires which i dont think i mentioned
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:39 PM   #10
brad chevy
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Did you just buy these tires or what ? Sounds like you need to buy new tires.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:13 PM   #11
Dan Timberlake
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

What are the symptoms?
"Waddle" at 10 mph?
Steering shake at ~55-65 mph?
Whole car shake increasing with mph?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNBzPrHO4QQ

The spec of 0.1 " mentioned is worth considering.
He is just "measuring" radial runout.
There is some lateral runout "visible" too.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Sounds like the tires may be separating. If two shops said they are no good, then they are likely no good. There are regulations tire shops have to follow, and mounting unsafe tires is illegal. I know that sometimes it feels like they only want to sell you new tires, but my guess is that you need new tires. If you give me the size, speed rating and brand/model you need, I'll give you an idea of price range so you don't feel like you're being taken advantage of when you go to buy them.
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Last edited by Buzznut; 04-24-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Sheep View Post
Out of round and out of balance are two different things, which is it? Find a tire shop that has the equipment to perform road force balancing which checks wheel/tire concentricity, lateral runout and balance. 20 ounces of weight is too much if it's all on one wheel...
He's right on the money that all of the balance weights in the world won't cure an out of round condition.

Have you actually measured how much out of round the tires are? It's best to measure them after they have been run a bit too so that you aren't measuring flat spots from sitting for a while.

Also have you checked the rims to see if they aren't somewhat out of round or out of balance without the tires on them?

The Road Force balancer is technology that didn't exist when I was doing front end work and fighting vibrations in dealerships in the 70's but that may be the way to go to be able to figure out how to get it to ride the best you can.

If the tires can't be warrantied as defective I'd be finding a tire shop that could true them. You loose a bit of tread but in the long run you end up with a smoother ride and the tires might end up lasting longer than they would without it.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by 59 brook View Post
took it too the first shop who gave me the roadforce printout. it said rims wer good but tires ng. they didnt even bother to balance the wheels as they said the tires were visibly not ro nd. tire dealer asked me to go to another shop which i did, no roadforce printo t sheet so they said we balanced them yet the tires are not ro nd. now the stickon weights fell off (16oz) + approx. 4 more beat on the rim weights . i can't even drive the car now . my opinion is maybe the belts in the tire are shifting . this are radial tires which i dont think i mentioned
Return them now because you'll never be satisfied with the ride quality. Having the tires trued can make them round but you will be sacrificing tread wear and most likely still suffer serious balance issues. If the dealer is legit they will refund your money or exchange the tires.

Were the tires were purchased online?
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Hopefully they are sound, and reposition, shave if reqd, and balance are the way to go.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Working in the tire industry, I'm just not sure I agree with correcting an out of round tire by shaving it. Out of round typically indicates a defect. Myself, driving a hot rod that I've poured my time and money into and that I value, I wouldn't risk a tire failure on an iffy tire just because I can FORCE it to be round by doing something questionable.

If the tires are within warranty then they should be replaced by the manufacturer/retailer, if not then you're going to have to bite the bullet and replace the tires. If the wheels are true and the tires are out of round, don't use those tires.

Also, if you have them shaved, you will void the warranty.
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Last edited by Buzznut; 04-25-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Just picture an egg on an axle.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:05 PM   #18
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

Is it the tire machine? Is it the wheel or is it for sure the tire? My experience is a process of elimination. ONE OR ALL CAN BE GOOFED UP.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

He says two different places told him the tires were bad... I guess there's a very small chance that they both have bad equipment.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

I had a set of out of round front tires (flat spotted them at the drags). Horrible shake in the steering wheel at about 40mph. They were nearly new, so i started to look for someone to shave them....no luck. I finally decided to shave them myself on the car. I used a 4-1/2" grinder. 36 grit flap wheels loaded up quickly, but i had a 36 grit diamond wheel (that i use for removing rust from steel), that worked pretty good on the rubber. It was a 2 man job, one to spin the tire slowly, the other to hold the grinder on the ground. I know it's kind of a backyard way to do it, but it saved my tires.

I might add that Speedway sells a couple different types of wheels for grinding tires using a 4-1/2" hand grinder, but i didn't need to buy one.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: out of round tire problems

OK If the wheel is good and true, and the tire is out of round, then shaving the tire to make it round leaves more tread on one side of the tire than the other.
Which will be a bitch to balance.
If a new tire is out of round, return it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:49 PM   #22
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Wink Re: out of round tire problems

Get popcorn for this;
Jeff, ether get round tires*****, or play games with old ones that are pretty much bad ideas,;balance them anyway**if out of round is $ down drain. Extra notes to follow,games include running low air PSI of around 22*=that some times lets tire be rounder and also lets it flex enough some times to run smoother. You can jack up a front wheel/take off/back off brakes so no drag at all and hub spins free/remount rim and tire/spin by hand,let it come to stop,mark bottom bottom,do again,see if mark it at bottom,mark a #2 at that bottom,do again,if bottom is about in between,you have found havey side,add wt. to top of rim away from your marks recheck.
O.K> that was farmer way to balance at home. Now for farmer dangerist as hell way ,with a disk grinder mounted hard to something really havey that you can just bearly move along the ground,get close to tire[not even on to start with] with high spot identafiyed,cut only high spot on tire as it is turned slowly by some other total fool ,OK actuly I got away with this ones,but not a good idea to even try,forget it!
Above is entertenmint only for reader

PS; Jeff,I have some 15s on my old chevy G20 van that are far and were round when I parked it,you can trade out if needed for free,but your work.
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