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Old 02-19-2013, 12:42 PM   #1
rottaperkele
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Default 305 w tunnel ram

Hi! im new here and from finland so try figure what im writing

Im building 'ratrod / hotrod' engine to my -61 brookwood

thats what i have:

Block is: 14010201...305...80-85...2 bolt and its 0.30 over (310cid)
Pistons are dished so they are something like +14-15cc?

Heads are 14022601...80-86...267/305......1.84"/1.5" valves, 53cc

Im gonna do some cleaning and gasket matching to heads and fix valves etc.

I bought weiand tunnel ram w 2x450cfm holleys.

Im gonna use 0.015 headgasket to get cr up to 9.5

well just wondering what camshaft i should use?

my trans is th200r4 and gears 3.73 open

thanks!

All comment are wellcome!
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:02 PM   #2
Moedog07
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Wow that's an interesting combo. I would think that the car is heavy so a high torque cam would be best but would that work with the tunnel ram intake..... ?
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Welcome to the HAMB! I have a Chevy 355/Muncie 4 speed with the same set up in a '32 Ford 5W coupe and it works, but it works best wide open (and that is fun!). It will run OK, but off idle performance isn't the best due to all the carburation and running an automatic will make it worse because you can't keep it cleaned out without putting it in neutral. A clutch and manual trans would be much easier to live with unless you run a high stall converter and a low rear end gear. It would be best to keep the cam mild to have any sort of low end torque. Your smaller engine size and heads will restrict the high end performance anyway. Your car is heavier too so that won't help either. For regular street use a single four barrel/dual plane manifold would drive and perform much better with your engine, but wouldn't have the look of a tunnel ram. You might want to leave it on the shelf, it will look good there too! My hat is off to you guys over there, everything is much harder and more expensive to do. Good luck!
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

with its small bore and long stroke, the 305 keeps up the intake velocity pretty well which translates to good streetable torque. your proposed use of smaller carbs is correct and this combo might actually work pretty well. but do not over cam it. look pu the threads on here about 305 builds. Ignore those who poo-poo them as smog motors.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

A Brookwood is a heavy station wagon? A 305 with a lot of carburetor,900 potential cfm is a lot of carb, would be better in a lighter car....But it can be ok. I think a cam of about 215 degrees duration at .050 lift ...
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:45 AM   #6
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

I like do things different way than others do

well yes car is bit heavy ~4000lbs and has that auto tranny
but i know guy who modify converters so maybe i can get more stall

what u think about this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k00172/

too radical idle? it has 218degrees and 450lift lsa is 106

should i swap 450cfms to 390s? hard to find i think

i need longer tv-cable to trans too

many things to do, but maybe it runs

when i did calculate CR and DCR i got cr to 9.5 w 0.015 gaskets but
with that cam DCR is 8.5, is that too much? i used this one: http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

thats what i did put on it: http://oi46.tinypic.com/xdfdxd.jpg
and cam has ABDC 31 and i add 15 it? 46 ?
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Welcome, you might want to fill out Comp Cams form, and see what they recommend. A place to start, its free. You have a different combination then the normal stuff. See what the experts tell you. Good luck
http://www.camquest.com/
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:01 AM   #8
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Well i like do something else than others

Car is pretty heavy, ~4000lbs
I know guy who fix converters so i can get some more stall maybe
Should i use 390cfm carbs? but those are hard to find
how about lobey idle? hard to get it off-idle with tunnel ram?
bigger accelerator pump and nozzles?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k00172/overview/

Is this too 'radical' have huge overlap

I have calculated my cr to 9.5 and quench is 0.040
with 0.015 gaskets, (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp)

if i use this summit cam, ABDC is 31 + 15 = 46?
well dcr is then ~8.5 is that ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg32 View Post
Welcome, you might want to fill out Comp Cams form, and see what they recommend. A place to start, its free. You have a different combination then the normal stuff. See what the experts tell you. Good luck
http://www.camquest.com/
they recommend use xe262h

Last edited by rottaperkele; 02-20-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 09:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

One thing u want to get right is the throttle pressure or the 200R4 will be SMOKED in no time!
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Don't over cam with a smallish engine, and not real high compression, and the tunnel ram. The 262XE is a good choice for the way you're engine will be setup in a large car. Also, when you have your heads done I'd consider going with larger 1.94/1.60 SS valves, as they'll do a better job of bringing the 305 to life.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #11
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
Don't over cam with a smallish engine, and not real high compression, and the tunnel ram. The 262XE is a good choice for the way you're engine will be setup in a large car. Also, when you have your heads done I'd consider going with larger 1.94/1.60 SS valves, as they'll do a better job of bringing the 305 to life.
i have bad 882 heads and these have 1.94 intake valves, maybe i swap those in?
9.5 too much cr to my combo?
car has been w manual trans and have still clutch pedal, but if i swap to manual i need balance my engine again w manual flywheel

im studying automotive engineering so i need keep my budget low

theres now some pictures in my folder of my cars
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971BB427 View Post
Don't over cam with a smallish engine, and not real high compression, and the tunnel ram. The 262XE is a good choice for the way you're engine will be setup in a large car. Also, when you have your heads done I'd consider going with larger 1.94/1.60 SS valves, as they'll do a better job of bringing the 305 to life.
I recall a valve clearance problem with these small bore motors, like a 1.94, but might be the 2.02, hit the cylinder wall/deck. Not sure, but look into it first.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:54 AM   #13
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

yes i will check it before i bolt heads on.

I asked lunati camshafts what camshafts they would recommend, answer was that: http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=2416

i did compare all these cams in dyno2000: summit, comp cams and lunati.
comp gives poorest low-end hp/tq and summit&lunati gives much more low-end.

but is summit and lunati too much cam ?
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

In my humble opinion, any of these will work fine. They are mild cams actually. The Lunati has a 112 LSA, which is good, not too much overlap. I would get the CR to 9 or 9.5 as you said. All these are flat tappet, and here we have a problem with engine oil, current street legal oils have no ZZDP[zinc], and without it lobes wear fast. Dont know what you have over there, but look into that. Don't want to ruin a new cam.Good luck.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

I'm guessing that the heads you are talking about are 333882 heads. If so, they are 76 CC combustion chamber. You'd have to get a domed piston to raise the CR significantly if that's what you want. But for the heavy vehicle the lower CR might be favorable. Most stock 305 engine came with smaller combustion chambers from the factory (like 72-58cc range, depending on the casting).

Don't let everyone poo on the 305 in a heavy car. I had one in a '89 chevy caprice and it had plenty of get up and go. The tunnel ram part will likely be the hard part. The powerband is much higher, so that converter might be needed.

Lots of good advice here on 305s. Do a search. Good luck and have fun.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:30 AM   #16
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsrocket View Post
I'm guessing that the heads you are talking about are 333882 heads.
heads are 14010201 and im gonna swap bigger intake valves from 882's to them
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:43 AM   #17
31Vicky with a hemi
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by rottaperkele View Post
Well i like do something else than others

Car is pretty heavy, ~4000lbs
I know guy who fix converters so i can get some more stall maybe
Should i use 390cfm carbs? but those are hard to find
how about lobey idle? hard to get it off-idle with tunnel ram?
bigger accelerator pump and nozzles?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k00172/overview/

Is this too 'radical' have huge overlap

I have calculated my cr to 9.5 and quench is 0.040
with 0.015 gaskets, (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp)

if i use this summit cam, ABDC is 31 + 15 = 46?
well dcr is then ~8.5 is that ok?


they recommend use xe262h
I have that xe262 in a 307 with small chamber 305 heads.
I really like it. But I don't have a tunnel ram though.

Most can descriptions , like idle, power range, converter and such are based on 350 cubic inches. If your inches are more or less you'll need to adjust the description down or up. In other words the can will be more radical in a smaller cube engine than 350.
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Last edited by 31Vicky with a hemi; 02-22-2013 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:12 AM   #18
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

should i set carbs to inline or sideways?
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Inline, and you will need to set them up for a dual quad tunnel ram. Power valves may need a change, or eliminate them. The vacuum signal to dual carbs, plus the large plenum area, gives carbs a weaker vacuum signal.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:34 AM   #20
1971BB427
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by rottaperkele View Post
i have bad 882 heads and these have 1.94 intake valves, maybe i swap those in?
9.5 too much cr to my combo?
I didn't mean don't use too much compression, I meant don't use too much cam with an engine that doesn't have much compression. 9.5 is not too much compression, but if your 305 is stock, I doubt it has 9.5 compression. Most likely more like 8.5 CR.
Inline on carbs is always preferred if they will clear that way. Better fuel distribution. I had to change power valves, nozzles (larger) and accelerator pumps, on my 327 Chevy to get the tunnel ram and carbs working correctly. Part of the problem with my setup was choosing 450 Holleys that had mechanical secondaries, but not secondary accelerator pumps. If i had used carbs with vacuum secondaries, or double pumpers, it would have made it easier to tune.
The 454 I'm putting together now is getting dual 600 Holleys with vacuum secondaries, and hopefully it will require much less to get it working smoothly.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg32 View Post
I recall a valve clearance problem with these small bore motors, like a 1.94, but might be the 2.02, hit the cylinder wall/deck. Not sure, but look into it first.
Valve clearance is an issue with the 305 Chevy, and other small bore Chevys. The 1.94" valve is fine, but 2.02" wont clear without clearancing, or boring the block.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:59 AM   #22
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

finally got my heads done w 1.94 and 1.5 valves
well now im comparing camshafts and dcr.

with that bracket master my dcr goes up to 8.76:1
whats too much to pump gas i think?
we have 98 RON whats 94 PON.

with compcams xe262 dcr is 8.01:1 whats good for pump gas.
and with xe268 dcr is even smaller

but as you have told i should not over cam this, so i have to stay in my pants and choose smaller cam ..what, dunno yet

anyway i have read that 7-8 is good for pump gas, but sure theres other
things too what affect how is engine gonna work etc..

edit, ok i was looking my budget :--D
what summit cam you recommend to me? any good else in these further than price?

Last edited by rottaperkele; 03-24-2013 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:25 AM   #23
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

RON 98 (research octane number) is high enough to run an engine static compression of 9:1 easily. I don't think you have any worries at 8.76 cr.
If your budget can spring for $192, the Comp High Energy #CL12-210-2 is a good choice for your engine. 268/268 duration, .454 lift, and 110 lsa.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:15 AM   #24
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

as i told my scr is 9.5 and now im calculating dcr
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:22 AM   #25
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

In your climate, tunnel rams are hard to start when cold. Good luck with your build.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

You mentioned that your 9.5:1 compression ratio will be 8.5:1 with the Summit cam profile. Just to clarify, your compression ratio is based on chamber size, piston dome, etc...and will remain the same, regardless of cam specs.
What a different profile camshaft will change is your "cranking compression". More duration essentially decreases cranking compression and moves the power band of the engine upwards. At a certain point, low speed driveability will suffer. People tend to go with a looser stall speed converter and lower rear end ratio to keep the rpm in the power band.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:35 PM   #27
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

theres used flat tapped cam + lifters forsale, i quess its "too big?"
what u think about that:
http://www.cranecams.com/product/car...detail&p=23972

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Old 03-25-2013, 01:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by rottaperkele View Post
finally got my heads done w 1.94 and 1.5 valves
well now im comparing camshafts and dcr.

with that bracket master my dcr goes up to 8.76:1
whats too much to pump gas i think?
we have 98 RON whats 94 PON.

with compcams xe262 dcr is 8.01:1 whats good for pump gas.
and with xe268 dcr is even smaller

but as you have told i should not over cam this, so i have to stay in my pants and choose smaller cam ..what, dunno yet

anyway i have read that 7-8 is good for pump gas, but sure theres other
things too what affect how is engine gonna work etc..

edit, ok i was looking my budget :--D
what summit cam you recommend to me? any good else in these further than price?
I would run this cam: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet Degreed at 4 advanced.These smaller cube motors like extra exhaust breathing as it kind of fools them into acting like better than stock heads,advancing the cam will bring the torque in at a slightly lower RPM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by rottaperkele View Post
should i set carbs to inline or sideways?
It doesn't matter which way you set them, as long as you set them on a shelf in your garage and install a 4-bbl for street use. A low compression tunnel ram setup will be HORRIBLE on the street. Wake up.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:16 PM   #30
rottaperkele
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by fridaynitedrags View Post
It doesn't matter which way you set them, as long as you set them on a shelf in your garage and install a 4-bbl for street use. A low compression tunnel ram setup will be HORRIBLE on the street. Wake up.
9.5:1 low compression?
anyway cabs going to inline.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by rottaperkele View Post
9.5:1 low compression?
anyway cabs going to inline.
9.5:1 will support a camshaft with ~212 degrees duration @0.050" tappet lift. That's not nearly enough cam to support a tunnelram setup. I'm aware that my knowledge, wisdom and experience is falling on deaf ears and that you're hell-bent on using a tunnelram on the street, but I at least feel the need to try to get through to you. Go ahead and make your mistakes and hopefully you will learn from them.
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Last edited by fridaynitedrags; 04-21-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: 305 w tunnel ram

Use the cam recomended by the experts.
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